Giants - strap bar progression?

[Laban]

Hi all!

I've been doing giants on the strap bar for a while now, but when I tried working on the "regular" bar with grips, I was completely stuck and couldn't do even one.

Basically, what I wanted to know is - are there any tips that might help me out here?
I mean, there's got to be some "natural progression" from the strap bar to the "regular bar", though I haven't found anything on this matter and I'm starting to think it might just be a "go do it" sort of thing.
It's just really weird to me that I could pull tons of giants, but then with grips I feel completely stuck.

thanks

 

[bookworm]

I don't know from personal experience but according to my gymnast daughter, the difference between strap bar and real bar giants is tremendous...I believe her comment was "Mom, even YOU could do a giant on the strap bar"...so I guess my point is not to get too frustrated that the strap bar giants don't transfer over right away..

 

[nicci1999]

I've never worked giants but I have worked strap bar, and the main this g I noticed is that with strap bar, no wrist shift really seems to be involved...not to the extent needed on bars without the strap. So maybe You're having issues with the wrist shift with grips on?

 

[Laban]

bookworm - basically, it's true. though you do need some muscle, and keeping a good hollow means you also got to have good core shape.
plus there's the the bigger issue of getting the technique and getting over the fear of going over the bar.
btw, although true that's not very encouraging

nicci1999 - yes! wrist shift is probably my biggest problem here. I've also noticed when trying giants on a "tighter" strap bar - that my body goes over the top and my wrists gets stuck back.

Do you know any good exercise for wrist shifts?

thanks

 

[gymnastgets10]

Strap bar and the real bar a totally different; straps are nice to get the feel for a skill, though. I learned my giant in straps in 3 days and now, over a year later, I still don't always make my giants on the real bar. I would say just keep trying on the real bar (get a spot if you can).

 

[Laban]

Strap bar and the real bar a totally different; straps are nice to get the feel for a skill, though. I learned my giant in straps in 3 days and now, over a year later, I still don't always make my giants on the real bar. I would say just keep trying on the real bar (get a spot if you can).

took me 3 days as well but I still refuse to believe that the real bar is that much more difficult - maybe I just need more power

I'd still love to get some nice wrist shifts drills

 

[wordsmith]

If the boys coaches don't hate you for it (not sure how much chalk this takes off the bar), you might try using wool gloves or garden gloves on the regular men's pipe, with straps- but no pvc. So you have to work on wrist shift.

You can probably find wool gloves for $1.99 and depending on the amount of usage you put into them, they might last you a couple of months.

I only started having a few level 5's try them this past summer- the ones who already have their strap bar giants with the pvc pipe.

If you have a floor bar with edges that are rounded off at the top and not too long, you can experiment with a level 4 backward roll to hollow push up (like a 3/4 giant) and maybe a back extension into handstand. It might also give you a sense of wrist shift.

Here's an example of what I mean.

Can you do 3/4 baby giants over the top of the bar before your thighs hit? Or maybe even free hips. Lessons learned from doing those should also transfer over into the wrist shifting needed for giant swings.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

good with everything you said with 1 exception.^^^

it is not recommended or advised that kids do giants on the boys high bar with any sort of glove while being strapped in.

if the risk is taken, a coach should be there and be all over them like bees on honey.

 

[BlairBob]

Doing strap giants in gloves is well known and used. It transfers better (so I hear) to the wrist shift for giant and free/clear hip.

Wearing gloves on "Pipe" just means it would wear off the chalk. Kind of annoying but not nearly as bad as making the men's HB into usage as a strap bar as well.

 

[nevertooold]

it is not recommended or advised that kids do giants on the boys high bar with any sort of glove while being strapped in.

if the risk is taken, a coach should be there and be all over them like bees on honey.

this is the 2nd time I have read you warn about using gloves w/ straps...
we don't do it but i know lots of other gyms do. Was actually considering it until I heard you warn against it.

Is the primary danger the risk of the glove fabric coming together and locking up?? I can imagine that could cause some nasty arm fractures.

 

[Laban]

If the boys coaches don't hate you for it (not sure how much chalk this takes off the bar), you might try using wool gloves or garden gloves on the regular men's pipe, with straps- but no pvc. So you have to work on wrist shift.

You can probably find wool gloves for $1.99 and depending on the amount of usage you put into them, they might last you a couple of months.

I only started having a few level 5's try them this past summer- the ones who already have their strap bar giants with the pvc pipe.

If you have a floor bar with edges that are rounded off at the top and not too long, you can experiment with a level 4 backward roll to hollow push up (like a 3/4 giant) and maybe a back extension into handstand. It might also give you a sense of wrist shift.

Here's an example of what I mean.

Can you do 3/4 baby giants over the top of the bar before your thighs hit? Or maybe even free hips. Lessons learned from doing those should also transfer over into the wrist shifting needed for giant swings.

Thanks a lot
I guess that's the progression I was looking for, but, I think I'll just try and push harder with the grips, cause the gloves don't make it much easier so I might as well go straight for the grips.

Regarding the floor bar, we have a fixed one - not like the one you suggested. Maybe I could try lying elevated on my back and try pushing to handstand - you think it'll help with the wrist shifts?

Not sure about 3/4 baby giants, but I could do pretty high tap swings.
clear hips might help - never thought of that

thanks

 

[emacmommy]

When you are swinging on straps make sure you are purposely going through the correct tapping techniques that you are going to use when you transfer to unevens. It is easy to swing a giant in straps if you can cast to handstand or work your taps bigger and bigger. This is because the lack of friction and hence no wrist flick action. Simple laws of physics state what you put into something you get exact equal back out of something when things are in a perfect frictionless state (including having a tight body). I learned this as a gymnast before high school physics using the oh so scientific terminology of something, since we were too young to have physics vocabulary. I have a hilarious story of my coach teaching us this lesson that involves an ankle weight and surgical tubing stretched between the uprights of the bar... slingshot style. But I stray off topic...

You can also think of the strap bar similarly to using a loose foam pit to learn tumbling into. Since the pit is inevitably down lower than the floor, it's fairly easy to do a back tuck into the pit and land upright and safely. I encourage girls to be able to over rotate to the back some (not miss feet entirely) if they have only learned R/O BHS Tucks, etc. into the pit, before trying on the floor. If you go only as hard as throwing yourself into the pit and then trying on floor, you are bound to under rotate.

Similar with giants in strap moving to a regular women's rail. If you just start in a handstand and hope that is enough to make it back around to handstand, and use NO tap technique/action, more often than not you aren't going to make it, especially for the smaller gymnasts with no weight to use on the bar.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

this is the 2nd time I have read you warn about using gloves w/ straps...
we don't do it but i know lots of other gyms do. Was actually considering it until I heard you warn against it.

Is the primary danger the risk of the glove fabric coming together and locking up?? I can imagine that could cause some nasty arm fractures.

yes, that is the primary danger. and they are very bad fractures. not the usual.

sometimes it doesn't matter if others are doing it. safety first. if there are other methods you use them.

there are more of us that teach giants every day and have never even used a strap bar. this goes for boys also.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

When you are swinging on straps make sure you are purposely going through the correct tapping techniques that you are going to use when you transfer to unevens. It is easy to swing a giant in straps if you can cast to handstand or work your taps bigger and bigger. This is because the lack of friction and hence no wrist flick action. Simple laws of physics state what you put into something you get exact equal back out of something when things are in a perfect frictionless state (including having a tight body). I learned this as a gymnast before high school physics using the oh so scientific terminology of something, since we were too young to have physics vocabulary. I have a hilarious story of my coach teaching us this lesson that involves an ankle weight and surgical tubing stretched between the uprights of the bar... slingshot style. But I stray off topic...

You can also think of the strap bar similarly to using a loose foam pit to learn tumbling into. Since the pit is inevitably down lower than the floor, it's fairly easy to do a back tuck into the pit and land upright and safely. I encourage girls to be able to over rotate to the back some (not miss feet entirely) if they have only learned R/O BHS Tucks, etc. into the pit, before trying on the floor. If you go only as hard as throwing yourself into the pit and then trying on floor, you are bound to under rotate.

Similar with giants in strap moving to a regular women's rail. If you just start in a handstand and hope that is enough to make it back around to handstand, and use NO tap technique/action, more often than not you aren't going to make it, especially for the smaller gymnasts with no weight to use on the bar.

what i have put in bold is not recommended or advised either if i interpret the post literally. if the foam is below floor level a gymnast should never be instructed to over rotate to their back even if it is so slightly.

 

[emacmommy]

I did not mean miss feet entirely and I was talking about a loose foam pit, not resi pit. Our pit is only fluffed as high as the edge, but ultimately as you land you sink into the pit, lower than the floor.

Sorry, morning fog in my explanation, probably bad analogy. I tried to fix by inserting in paranthesis but wasn't clear. A lot of first timers just go through the motions when learning, you do that on hard floor and you are bound to under rotate. Similar to a giant, you just go through the motions of a large swing with no tap and you are bound to under rotate. Actually, I don't even teach first time back tuckers into the pit at all, nor do I teach first time gianters on strap, although we have both.

My point was lost in my attempt to come up with an analogy.

Point is, don't just go through the motions of a large swing when using straps, make sure you practice good tap timing techniques and consciously think of when to flick wrists, even if you don't flick in straps. Similar in pit tumbling, you shouldn't use the pit just because it's a soft cushier and easier place to chuck a skill, you should still be conscious of proper techniques and awareness.

I will try and wake up more before I post any advice.

 

[nevertooold]

it doesn't matter if others are doing it. safety first.

Totally agree.

Just wondered if that was indeed the danger that you were alluding to.

If there are other additional dangers I would be interested in knowing about that too.

We will not be using gloves on strap, however rare glove locking up may be, I'm not interested in taking that risk personally.

 

[BlairBob]

for the girls, we also assembled a low bar of sorts made up of PVC. Very portable. I could see that you simply hang a string across and cover it with a pool noodle to simulate the same effect of making sure they learn to pike or straddle in the back phase of the back giant swing phase.

 

[wordsmith]

Regarding the floor bar, we have a fixed one - not like the one you suggested. Maybe I could try lying elevated on my back and try pushing to handstand - you think it'll help with the wrist shifts?

Maybe. How about a setup similar to this in concept?

Not sure about 3/4 baby giants, but I could do pretty high tap swings.

Did you ever have to do the level 6 baby giant? If you're riding the swing over the top of the bar before touching your thighs to it for the underswing, then you'd have to be shifting your wrists.

I like this approach to teaching giants.

As far as the wool gloves, there isn't that much friction. The only danger from a "grip-lock" effect that I perceive would be from the straps themselves.

Now you have me paranoid. I've talked to a number of coaches, and none have heard of anyone ever having that problem with wool gloves and men's pipe. I decided to finally give it a try after talking to one of Tom Forster's coaches. I'd love to pose the question to them.