Parents Judging harder in some states or regions?

[Deleted member 18037]

I disagree with this. My daughter was scoring 37s and 38s all season. She finished up her state meet in December. Three months later, she still doesn't have all of her skills for the next level up. She is on target to get what she needs in time to successfully compete that level this fall, but it would have been completely unsafe to require her to move up mid season.

Is she compulsory? JO? In IGC there is an overlap of skills, so it is possible to move up safely, just not necessarily move up and score 38s right away.

There is another option. One could not compete until they are ready for the next level. Still train but not compete. If the current level has been mastered why even bother? Time would be better spent working on the new skills.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Is she compulsory? JO? In IGC there is an overlap of skills, so it is possible to move up safely, just not necessarily move up and score 38s right away.

There is another option. One could not compete until they are ready for the next level. Still train but not compete. If the current level has been mastered why even bother? Time would be better spent working on the new skills.

She is JO Compulsory. IGC isn't really a common thing in this part of the country.

They "bother" competing because they train all year long for a competitive season that lasts for 2.5 months.

She did not repeat a level and was only scoring mid 36 the previous year in the prior level. Should she be punished by not being allowed to compete for an entire year because she worked hard and her coaches had a smart training plan for her? That's completely ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

She is JO Compulsory. IGC isn't really a common thing in this part of the country.

They "bother" competing because they train all year long for a competitive season that lasts for 2.5 months.

She did not repeat a level and was only scoring mid 36 the previous year in the prior level. Should she be punished by not being allowed to compete for an entire year because she worked hard and her coaches had a smart training plan for her? That's completely ridiculous.

I/we were not speaking specifically about your child. Please don't take it personally.

Some of us were speaking about a max out score for a level. If you have mastered something why keep doing it for another year? Lets take math, a child masters addtion facts. Should we keep testing those fact so they keep getting 100s but not test multiplication facts until they can get all 100 on those tests? I don't let my daughter keep doing only the math she is comfortable with.

There are clearly gyms who compete gymmies down who are clearly ready to move up but would rather they have 38s in a lower level then a very solid respectable 34 in a higher level. That is not "in the spirit" of things.

It is not punishment to have mastered something and move on. That would be considered being successful.

Can't speak for you and your gym. Our gym likes to win. But the goal is getting better at gymnastics, not wins. Competition, while nice to win are a way to measure improvement which is hard to see day to day. The expectation is for you scores to improve over the season and peak at states. Not trounce from meet one. So yes I stand by opinion, after all really no one is doing it my way any how.

But I like the idea, you master a level. Time to focus on the next level. And when you are ready you compete that.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I wasn't taking it personally. Just offering an example of a case where it isn't "sandbagging" that leads to scores of 37+, simply good training.

Our gym isn't a "master it and move on" gym. Our kids are forever doing basics. That is why we have a successful team through all levels. I'm sorry, but in gymnastics (and in math, IMO), you never truly "move on" from basics. In order to build successful optional gymnasts, you must do thousands of repetitions of basic skills, with impeccable form and technique. If you move to the next skill too soon, you end up with a mess, often including fear issues/balking.

That said, we do have very young level 9s and 10s, so it isn't like we don't let kids move forward when ready. However, we rarely have anyone skip compulsory levels. They are the foundational levels of strong optional skills.

Different philosophies, I guess.

 

[gymnastmom05]

I haven't verified this, but I heard a coach saying that a state (I think California?) made it so kids don't have a mandatory move up score but once a child scores a 37+, if they repeat the level the next season, their score doesn't count for team scores. The coach also added there were a lot less repeating kids after that rule was put in place. If it's true, I think it's a great compromise. It still lets the gymnast compete, though the poor girls in her age group are at a disadvantage but it places the emphasis more on the skills?? Not sure I'm articulating what I really mean. It gives the opportunity for girls to still compete when maybe they're an awesome level 3 but can't get a kip but also doesn't encourage gyms to repeat girls just to win team awards and recognition. It's not perfect but I think that's a start.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I haven't verified this, but I heard a coach saying that a state (I think California?) made it so kids don't have a mandatory move up score but once a child scores a 37+, if they repeat the level the next season, their score doesn't count for team scores. The coach also added there were a lot less repeating kids after that rule was put in place. If it's true, I think it's a great compromise. It still lets the gymnast compete, though the poor girls in her age group are at a disadvantage but it places the emphasis more on the skills?? Not sure I'm articulating what I really mean. It gives the opportunity for girls to still compete when maybe they're an awesome level 3 but can't get a kip but also doesn't encourage gyms to repeat girls just to win team awards and recognition. It's not perfect but I think that's a start.

YES to this, I think this is a great rule and would eliminate a lot of the true sandbagging without taking away the option to repeat for those who really need it.

 

[gymbeam]

Suggesting that because someone starts out a season strong they should move up in that season is crazy to me. Barring injury, the athlete obviously shouldn't repeat the following year, but if a gym put is capable of moving girls up each year while also kicking ***, then more power to them!

Our athletes are always in the very, very youngest age groups, don't repeat levels and score 37+ routinely from the gate. I don't see how anyone could suggest that they move any faster. They are already reaching Level 10 by 8th grade (a few by 7th and a few by 9th).

They earn their high placements fair and square by committing to a selective JO program that trains hard.

 

[gymnastmom05]

A girl in my DD's age group last year (not our gym but our state) went from a level 5 last season, winning everything to a level 8 this season. I question why in the world they didn't bother scoring her out of 5 and heading to 7 last season instead of scoring out of 7 this year and moving on to 8. It COULD be that something just clicked all the sudden or my other theory is the gym wanted her scores for team placement as level 5 scores tend to be lower compared to what I've seen in level 7. It's just my theory. I'm just glad she's not my DD's competition this year...

 

[amiandjim]

A girl in my DD's age group last year (not our gym but our state) went from a level 5 last season, winning everything to a level 8 this season. I question why in the world they didn't bother scoring her out of 5 and heading to 7 last season instead of scoring out of 7 this year and moving on to 8. It COULD be that something just clicked all the sudden or my other theory is the gym wanted her scores for team placement as level 5 scores tend to be lower compared to what I've seen in level 7. It's just my theory. I'm just glad she's not my DD's competition this year...

I have a better one...the girl who scored highest AA at our level 2 state meet last year is competing level 6 this year! And placing well. And no, she wasn't below the minimum age last year...she was 9 or 10 I believe. That one really had me scratching my head.

 

[sce]

She is JO Compulsory. IGC isn't really a common thing in this part of the country.

They "bother" competing because they train all year long for a competitive season that lasts for 2.5 months.

She did not repeat a level and was only scoring mid 36 the previous year in the prior level. Should she be punished by not being allowed to compete for an entire year because she worked hard and her coaches had a smart training plan for her? That's completely ridiculous.

I agree, she deserved to place well as she was capable of scoring well. Congrats to her! What us hard fir people to deal with are the repeaters who were already scoring well and the next year are sweeping the medal stands. That is a different situation than your dd, who first year in the level was getting those scores.

 

[l.c.o]

A girl in my DD's age group last year (not our gym but our state) went from a level 5 last season, winning everything to a level 8 this season. I question why in the world they didn't bother scoring her out of 5 and heading to 7 last season instead of scoring out of 7 this year and moving on to 8. It COULD be that something just clicked all the sudden or my other theory is the gym wanted her scores for team placement as level 5 scores tend to be lower compared to what I've seen in level 7. It's just my theory. I'm just glad she's not my DD's competition this year...

I do 100% personally believe that there are some gyms that do this... but not all of them do. My DD competed level 4 two fall seasons ago mostly in the 37-38 range, and is now competing level 7. She 100% was not ready for level 7 last spring (and they had no level 6s... so...). While my DD is not winning everything this year, I think she's mostly doing pretty well, and she's often been in contention for an event or two. Things just clicked at the right time for her (seriously - until this fall, we weren't sure she'd be ready for 7 this season, even... In fact, one of her best placing events so far this season... Skills were nonexistent in September).

As for the math analogy, it didn't work for me, personally. If your kid has mastered addition/subtraction and scores 100% on tests, then they should absolutely be working on multiplication/division at home. But it doesn't mean they'd be ready for a math competition at that level - if I was the math teacher or parent, I absolutely wouldn't feel comfortable moving them on to compete multiplication or division until they showed some level of competency/mastery.

I'm sure those kids scoring highly are working higher levels in the gym.

We also need to remember that each gym has its own expected levels of competency/readiness to compete for each level.

 

[gymnastmom05]

I have a better one...the girl who scored highest AA at our level 2 state meet last year is competing level 6 this year! And placing well. And no, she wasn't below the minimum age last year...she was 9 or 10 I believe. That one really had me scratching my head.

Same gym

 

[amiandjim]

Same gym

Hahahahaha! I didn't even realize when I posted.

 

[amiandjim]

I do 100% personally believe that there are some gyms that do this... but not all of them do. My DD competed level 4 two fall seasons ago mostly in the 37-38 range, and is now competing level 7. She 100% was not ready for level 7 last spring (and they had no level 6s... so...). While my DD is not winning everything this year, I think she's mostly doing pretty well, and she's often been in contention for an event or two. Things just clicked at the right time for her (seriously - until this fall, we weren't sure she'd be ready for 7 this season, even... In fact, one of her best placing events so far this season... Skills were nonexistent in September).

As for the math analogy, it didn't work for me, personally. If your kid has mastered addition/subtraction and scores 100% on tests, then they should absolutely be working on multiplication/division at home. But it doesn't mean they'd be ready for a math competition at that level - if I was the math teacher or parent, I absolutely wouldn't feel comfortable moving them on to compete multiplication or division until they showed some level of competency/mastery.

I'm sure those kids scoring highly are working higher levels in the gym.

We also need to remember that each gym has its own expected levels of competency/readiness to compete for each level.

I am 100% sure this happens a lot and have zero problem with girls repeating when they don't have the skills for the next level. But, when it seems like most girls in a gym are competing WAY down, it does seem silly. I have a VERY hard time believing a child went from not having level 3 skills to having level 6 skills in a year. Could it happen? I suppose but doesn't seem very likely to me.

 

[l.c.o]

I am 100% sure this happens a lot and have zero problem with girls repeating when they don't have the skills for the next level. But, when it seems like most girls in a gym are competing WAY down, it does seem silly. I have a VERY hard time believing a child went from not having level 3 skills to having level 6 skills in a year. Could it happen? I suppose but doesn't seem very likely to me.

We have a young training group at our gym... Let's just say, seeing the kids a bit and talking to the parents, you'd be amazed to see how far they've come in just a year. Some gyms are gifted with naturally talented kids and adequately fast track them.

Again, not saying this is always the case, but it legitimately happens.

 

[Tigtimes]

For those of you whose kids are not optionals you will learn there is a mental aspect that comes into play, especially with young optionals. There are many times their bodies are ahead of their brains. In my years I have seen more than one high scoring kid held back for maturity sake. I have also seen some who weren't that should have as it became a total mess that was unrelated to ability to perform skills. just cause a kid can do it doesn't always mean they are ready to.

Yes there are many gyms that "sandbag" never gonna change. To classify all kids scoring high/repeating levels/skipping levels as sandbaggers is just not true.

 

[Flicfliclay]

I can say for a fact that one gym in particular here trains their girls up a level than they are competing. So if they are competing Level 5, the girls have been training level 7 and have their skills already. I have spoken to many of the parents at that gym and they always say yah well you know our gym hold girls back, we just deal with it and the girls and gym is happy because they sweep the podium. So it is what it is and everyone in our state knows this of that particular gym. Some gyms make it a point NOT to go to meets they are at on purpose! LOL I truly believe it is NOT in the spirit of fairness to do this, but guess what? Nobody cares what I think! ha ha!

 

[twinmomma]

I/we were not speaking specifically about your child. Please don't take it personally.

Some of us were speaking about a max out score for a level. If you have mastered something why keep doing it for another year? Lets take math, a child masters addtion facts. Should we keep testing those fact so they keep getting 100s but not test multiplication facts until they can get all 100 on those tests? I don't let my daughter keep doing only the math she is comfortable with.

There are clearly gyms who compete gymmies down who are clearly ready to move up but would rather they have 38s in a lower level then a very solid respectable 34 in a higher level. That is not "in the spirit" of things.

It is not punishment to have mastered something and move on. That would be considered being successful.

Can't speak for you and your gym. Our gym likes to win. But the goal is getting better at gymnastics, not wins. Competition, while nice to win are a way to measure improvement which is hard to see day to day. The expectation is for you scores to improve over the season and peak at states. Not trounce from meet one. So yes I stand by opinion, after all really no one is doing it my way any how.

But I like the idea, you master a level. Time to focus on the next level. And when you are ready you compete that.

You assume that competing twice successfully indicates mastery. My daughter's level 4 season had blocks, etc... involved. Why would you punish a kid who has confidence competing at her current level and can have a successful season by pulling them from competition to move on to training the next level. And depending on where you are? 34 is not respectable in the higher level - it may put you literally at the bottom of the pack. Mastering something entails completing a season. One meet does not mastery make.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The real question is why is not competing thought of as punishment????

Its not a reward or punishment. Its just not competing until ready.

Many gyms don't do level 2 or 3 as it is not required and start at level 4. Are they being "punished"? Of course not, they are just not competing.

And of course skills build, much like math facts.

But you don't stay in 5th grade for multiple years because you can't get 95 for better from the start of the 6th grade school year.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I agree, she deserved to place well as she was capable of scoring well. Congrats to her! What us hard fir people to deal with are the repeaters who were already scoring well and the next year are sweeping the medal stands. That is a different situation than your dd, who first year in the level was getting those scores.

Exactly