Parents Judging harder in some states or regions?

[LindyHopper]

Could it be that the excessive repeating and competing down is for solely for the purpose of sweeping the podium and building the gym's reputation as a "winner"? Meanwhile, those gymnasts that they see with the capability of going to a NCAA program or elite get fast tracked.

 

[LindyHopper]

Just continuing my thought here...

Because if a gym sees a gymnast as not being good enough to compete NCAA, there is no longer a need (let alone a rush) to get her to Level 10. So, since that is no longer a worry or consideration, let the gymnast compete down and be "successful".

I don't like it, but it seems feasible.

By no means am I saying that all gyms do this, but I can think of a few gyms that might.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Of course, each of us may have our own interpretation of what the spirit of the rules are.

Actually it's the coaches/team that have their own interpretation of the spirit of the rules.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I guess my post was more a lack of understanding why teams do things the way they do, and compete gymnasts at a lower level than what they actually are. I have a gymnast on the edge that just fell short of the next level because she was missing one skill on bars. She is having a very good season, and enjoying the success, but if she had been able to get her skill (starting to do it now, but can't complete it in a routine) she would have gladly entered the next level and never looked back. Even early season, there was talk of letting her compete if she got the skill. And I understand that is just the way it is, but if the goal is to eventually create a competent level 10, forward movement through the levels rather than winning lower level meets seems the more important goal. I am sure 10 year old DD could go and win the 10 year old age division for level 6 at state this year, but how does that help her long term gymnastics, when she is almost a competent level 8? How is that fair to the other kids who are real level 6s. Just like a 10 year old level 9 has no business competing against DD. And they are certainly out there, if their coaches chose to operate that way

Again, not saying I agree. However, preparing for upper levels and competing are 2 different things. If they are uptraining then they are preparing for upper levels. They can still do this and compete at a level lower and score better.

And competing successfully, is a very broad definition. To one coach just having the skills is to be successful. To another success is having the skills to be able to score 37-38. Some gyms you can do L7 without a giant. To other gyms no L7 without a giant. Those just waiting to be giant ready but solid in all other areas, are likely going to trounce at L5 or L6

 

[LindyHopper]

Actually it's the coaches/team that have their own interpretation of the spirit of the rules.

When it comes to how my gymnast and her team compete (or even how other gyms have their teams compete), I completely agree.

However, if one has an interest in the sport, one can still have one's own interpretation of what the spirit of the rules are. Just because that opinion will have no bearing on how the sport is competed doesn't mean that opinion can't still be held and expressed at will.

 

[Flicfliclay]

Could it be that the excessive repeating and competing down is for solely for the purpose of sweeping the podium and building the gym's reputation as a "winner"? Meanwhile, those gymnasts that they see with the capability of going to a NCAA program or elite get fast tracked.

I can say for a fact that has A LOT to do with it! They have trophys and banners decorating their walls. A new gym mom walks in and is star struck! Bam new customer! Then new star struck moms daughter gets put on the " pre-team" OMG! Star Struck mom tells all her mom friends and they bring in their kids and Bam a whole slew of new customers!

 

[Flicfliclay]

I am certain at least here ( AZ ) there are some very well known gyms that hold back their gymnast. Their teams are so big that when they are in a session there is usually only room for 1 maybe 2 more teams .. so essentially they compete against themselves! LOL
I don't think that holding back girls by a full level is right, but something we have come to terms with. I tell my daughter to use that as motivation! Honestly when girls are headed to the first meet of the season and scoring 9.5 and better from the get go... that is what happens here. Now i can see that towards the end of the season, but at the beginning? Not sure as a parent that I would think my child is AMAZING getting first place all the time knowing its because she should be competing a level higher!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Not sure as a parent that I would think my child is AMAZING getting first place all the time knowing its because she should be competing a level higher!

JMO but I think it's the parents who contribute to the issue.

Many parents feel if they are paying there should be medals. At least here in the US.
That is why they go out so many places and have so many age groups.

Paying parents are revenue. Banners get rec kids and their parents too.

It's about revenue.

 

[kayjaybe]

It could be that the girl(s) you are seeing didn't have the skills when the gym requires them to move up. Some gyms have strict move-up dates - for example: if you don't have all L7 skills by Sept 1, you remain L6 for the year. If you are then competing against that girl in February, it is quite possible she has gained those skills during that time and is competing them to make her transition to L7 next year easier.

There is no real way to know for sure and nothing that can really be done about it.

Realize that other sports have the same issue. My YDD was just in a tournament for another sport and the higher numbered pools are supposed to be the higher level teams. Yet I saw teams that were clearly in WAY the wrong pools (either way too high or way too low).

None of it is an exact science, so we just have to live with it! (Of course, didn't stop me from complaining about it this weekend!)

 

[josie55]

So much cynicism! My guess, and this is just a parent's perspective, is that the coaches are trying to find a balance between the level where the gymnast can compete successfully, while also challenging and progressing them. I don't think they always make the right choice (coaches are human, as we all know.) And sometimes hindsight is 20/20. And perhaps sometimes there isn't a "right" answer -- one path might lead to not enough challenge/boredom, and the other path might lead to frustration.

 

[twinmomma]

So much cynicism! My guess, and this is just a parent's perspective, is that the coaches are trying to find a balance between the level where the gymnast can compete successfully, while also challenging and progressing them. I don't think they always make the right choice (coaches are human, as we all know.) And sometimes hindsight is 20/20. And perhaps sometimes there isn't a "right" answer -- one path might lead to not enough challenge/boredom, and the other path might lead to frustration.

Cynicism isn't always incorrect. Sort of the like the adage just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So much cynicism! My guess, and this is just a parent's perspective, is that the coaches are trying to find a balance between the level where the gymnast can compete successfully, while also challenging and progressing them..

I call it a realistic view.

Most coaches/gyms might operate that way.

And there are clearly gyms that keep them back competitively for better scores. And to further add you can have kids up training/doing things like Tops, which challenges them, holds off boredom and still have them compete at a lower level then the technically are capable of. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[3rd_time_around]

At my dd's gym, they have to have the skills by November for January season. If they cannot compete a skill, like a BHS on floor in level 3, then they have to scratch the event at the meet. They rarely have any repeating compulsories, but they have been accused of holding girls back just to win (because they are very successful), but they don't. They actually allow girls who are ready to score out of 1 or 2 levels. All it takes is a quick check on MyMeetScores.com to see if a gym is repeating girls. I have known a girl who came from another gym and joined my dd's team who openly talked about having to stay on the same level for 3 years even though her scores were 37s, because they always kept back about 6-8 girls to make sure they won. I had always heard the rumors, and who knows, she could have been lying, but all anyone needs to do is check that site.

So here's a question, lets say a gym trains their girls well, and by the time season starts, the level 3s are scoring 37-38 AA at their early meets (for example). Do you all think they should immediately move up to a higher level, or stay with their team until the season is over? It wouldn't be fair to make them move up and have to learn and perfect all new routines and compete skills they haven't mastered yet just because they trained well leading up to their season, would it? Just something to think about.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So here's a question, lets say a gym trains their girls well, and by the time season starts, the level 3s are scoring 37-38 AA at their early meets (for example). Do you all think they should immediately move up to a higher level, or stay with their team until the season is over? It wouldn't be fair to make them move up and have to learn and perfect all new routines and compete skills they haven't mastered yet just because they trained well leading up to their season, would it? Just something to think about.

I actually like the idea of a mandatory move up score. Not that anyone cares what I think.

IGC- has a mandatory move up, but there are no compulsories. If you score better than 38 in 2 meets, you need to go to the next level.

And in their Bronze level which is equivalent to about L3/4 they divide them out into 2 subgroups by scores, so likes are competing against likes. Because the jump to the next level is a big one based on required skills. I liked that about IGC

 

[sce]

IGC- has a mandatory move up, but there are no compulsories. If you score better than 38 in 2 meets, you need to go to the next level.

That season, or the next season? I see not letting them repeat the level but requiring level change mid-season would. be rough.

 

[CCGymbug]

So much cynicism! My guess, and this is just a parent's perspective, is that the coaches are trying to find a balance between the level where the gymnast can compete successfully, while also challenging and progressing them. I don't think they always make the right choice (coaches are human, as we all know.) And sometimes hindsight is 20/20. And perhaps sometimes there isn't a "right" answer -- one path might lead to not enough challenge/boredom, and the other path might lead to frustration.

I would love to agree with that but there are certain gyms in my state where girls spend 3 years in each level. It was a well known gym that I was considering and when I looked them up I saw it across the board.

When it comes to how my gymnast and her team compete (or even how other gyms have their teams compete), I completely agree.

However, if one has an interest in the sport, one can still have one's own interpretation of what the spirit of the rules are. Just because that opinion will have no bearing on how the sport is competed doesn't mean that opinion can't still be held and expressed at will.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

That season, or the next season? I see not letting them repeat the level but requiring level change mid-season would. be rough.

Yes that season. They theory being if coaches know a kid is going to be scoring that well they should be moving up. Or they should be upping their skills in the level. In other words don't go for minimum skills to up the score.

There are no compulsory levels so you have skill choices. This stops the do the minimum for big number thing.

To add some more information in IGC Cooper Division, there is Cooper 1 for first year competing, if you stay Cooper after your first year you compete Cooper 2. Next level would be Bronze, it also has a sub division. If you score higher then 35.8 2x, you compete Bronze Diamond.

This tends to even out the gymmies based more closely based on where they are at.

Again 2 over 38s and you move.

There are not as many levels and skills over lap.

Last season. my kid did Silver, only had minimum Silver skills. She did Ok. Could of done Bronze with top Bronze skills, would of likely been Bronze Diamond. If her coaches lowered the skill level of her routines at Bronze she could of gotten 38s at Bronze and ended up in Silver any way.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I disagree with this. My daughter was scoring 37s and 38s all season. She finished up her state meet in December. Three months later, she still doesn't have all of her skills for the next level up. She is on target to get what she needs in time to successfully compete that level this fall, but it would have been completely unsafe to require her to move up mid season.

 

[suebee]

Dd's gym generally move girls up one level a year. Skipping or scoring out is unusual, and so is repeating, except at the higher optional levels or related to long-term injuries.

A few years ago, the gym moved a few of girls up a level mid-season. It was, as I understand, unprecedented, and got a lot of the parents talking, wondering how these kids were selected to move up. They were not the highest scoring kids in their old level, although they were high scoring, and they not did seem to have a exceptionally good grasp of the next level skills.

The kids who moved up did not do particularly well score wise after moving up, either that year or in subsequent years.

A few years later, none of those girls who moved up mid-season are in the gym doing JO. They all either quit gymnastics all together or switched to Xcel. Yet almost all the girls who were "left behind" in the old level are still doing JO, and most are doing quite well.

 

[GymDad9.9]

At my dd's gym, they have to have the skills by November for January season. If they cannot compete a skill, like a BHS on floor in level 3, then they have to scratch the event at the meet. They rarely have any repeating compulsories, but they have been accused of holding girls back just to win (because they are very successful), but they don't. They actually allow girls who are ready to score out of 1 or 2 levels. All it takes is a quick check on MyMeetScores.com to see if a gym is repeating girls. I have known a girl who came from another gym and joined my dd's team who openly talked about having to stay on the same level for 3 years even though her scores were 37s, because they always kept back about 6-8 girls to make sure they won. I had always heard the rumors, and who knows, she could have been lying, but all anyone needs to do is check that site.

So here's a question, lets say a gym trains their girls well, and by the time season starts, the level 3s are scoring 37-38 AA at their early meets (for example). Do you all think they should immediately move up to a higher level, or stay with their team until the season is over? It wouldn't be fair to make them move up and have to learn and perfect all new routines and compete skills they haven't mastered yet just because they trained well leading up to their season, would it? Just something to think about.

I could see that as a possibility if there was a prior plan in place that included serious uptraining to allow for quick smooth transition to new level. Otherwise moving up a level without a strong foundation to do so and limited time to refine is not fair to the gymnast either.