Level 5 judging... what are they looking for?

[lilgymmie7]

When you coach them from home (and any teaching them or corrections really is coaching) it interferes with the relationship between coach/athlete and causes confusion for the child as to who to listen to "Do I do what my mom told me or my coach?" And often at the compulsory level, some gyms don't always worry about fitting exactly into the compulsory mold. If the coaches aren't concerned with it and you trust their philosphy and coaching, then let it go. Because sitting with her and telling her to change her run into tumbling passes IS coaching.

If it concerns you that much, I would email the coaches and let THEM decide how to best deal with it.

But again, I do consult the coaches and if like her bar coach told me that he wishes she would get her arms straighter on her kips and free hip, I do let them know that I will discuss it with her and have her work at open gyms. The run thing, I showed her on her video where and when she took the extra steps and had her walk through the pass minus the tumbles at home. I will listen to Dunno when he said NOT to contact her coaches. He hasn't straid me wrong in the past. Honestly, what is so incredibly wrong?
I am such a realist. I do not let gymnastics govern my life nor my child's. But I do let it aid in helping her develop into a mature and responsible, for now little, being. In my book, everything IS a learning experience. Most times in the past, I had a direct patch to her coaches because as a five year old she did many things a five year old does. She told many a story when she started with them. In other words they caught her lying a lot! They consulted me to help. She was a "meanie" to some girls. They consulted me to help with the situation, and I did of course.
I have never stepped outside of the line and "coached" her as I saw fit. Like a teacher, I expect my child to learn her gymnastics from her coaches. They have appreciated how I handle things with her. I think I heard before on here..."We are expected as parents to help them with school HW" I know I expect to have primary students get that help from parents when there is a difficulty especially. I don't take that to mean that I introduce a new curriculum. I simply reinforce what her coaches have been trying to make her see/get all along. Children do benefit from hearing the same thing in different ways. Dang, RTI has permeated my mindset in all things!! What has teaching done to me?!!!! I really do love my job!! No seriously, I do!!

 

[mariposa]

Obviously we just disagree. To each his own. Whenever DDs coach has mentioned anything to me about her skills or issues, I took it as her just informing me and I am 100% positive she doesn't want me to go home and coach DD on it, just keeping me updated on her progress. As to other issues, of course I would step in. If she told me that DDs behavior was not good, that is something I would talk to DD about as it is something that I expect her to do and it is something I think falls on my side of the line.

While I can see Dunno's point (about not bothering the coaches about scoring questions), I don't think he is advocating that we coach our kids from home. Maybe your coaches are fine with it, I am sure that my DDs coaches would not be. I think he was saying "let it go". If you can't let it go, my opinion of approaching her coaches still stands.

I have come to the conclusion, in my short amount of time I have had a child in this sport, that too much parental involvement almost always ends up detrimental to a gymnast's success in the long run. (The same could be said for complete lack of support, but I think too much can be way worse)

 

[maryRS]

I agree with this. My daughter is a 10 year old level 5, and right now she is annoyed with her vault scores (2nd year) feeling they are barely better than last year, and have not really moved up much from the beginning of the season, yet she feels her vault is so much better (and to me it looks better but I don't know everything the judges are looking for). The only thing I have encouraged her to do is to ask her coaches herself what she can do to improve the vault - although I have a feeling they have already told her, though they may not have used those exact words. I really have no desire to ask the coaches myself or get involved in any way. This is her sport, and I know she will figure it out.

But it is coaching when you work with them on skills or tell them how to do skills/routines. So tempting (and I remember doing it when my DD was a level 4 and at a gym that wasn't coaching her well at all), but a slippery slope for sure. When you coach them from home (and any teaching them or corrections really is coaching) it interferes with the relationship between coach/athlete and causes confusion for the child as to who to listen to "Do I do what my mom told me or my coach?" And often at the compulsory level, some gyms don't always worry about fitting exactly into the compulsory mold. If the coaches aren't concerned with it and you trust their philosphy and coaching, then let it go. Because sitting with her and telling her to change her run into tumbling passes IS coaching.

If it concerns you that much, I would email the coaches and let THEM decide how to best deal with it.

 

[lilgymmie7]

MWMBS, I just wanted to extend an apology for what after careful consideration was a high jack of your original post. I'm sure you must be thinking, "Hey wait a minute! I posted here!" Again please accept my sincere apology.

 

[gymdog]

I love your kid! She was so cute and smiley after that bar routine. That was great.

Since I heard it on here about the steps, I thought to ask further. C honestly thought she had to run into the passes not step into them. She can do her passes with no steps at all. Her front tuck is from a punch when in complex, etc. It shouldn't cause her confusion. But thank you Mariposa.

She SHOULD run, NOT step into tumbling passes. Please don't tell her to step into them. The issue with the steps that people are saying is it's supposed to be 3 running steps maximum (well, I guess the text says 1-3 but to do one in my opinion would be inappropriate unless the kid had some fear issue). My personal opinion is that it isn't that worth messing with good tumbling over in the long run. I'm okay with 4 steps, for example, though I generally discourage long runs because they annoy me (we all have our pet peeves...mine is running half the floor...).

As a general answer, the compulsory routines just don't favor some kids, in my opinion (particularly those who are bouncy and powerful but only of average flexibility/turnout). Posture, quality of movement, and foot fault errors are usually scattered throughout routines, whereas just looking at the "big" skills won't tell the whole story. It takes a lot of diligence to perform the entire L5 routine and avoid these mistakes. When we're talking about 7, 8, 9 year olds, unless they naturally tend towards having a long, nice line, it can be very difficult to sort out all the nuances. The previous cycle's L5 routine was, in my opinion, somewhat simpler and probably a bit more forgiving of those with only average flexibility.

 

[lilgymmie7]

I love your kid! She was so cute and smiley after that bar routine. That was great.
Thank you! That is all I am concerned about really. I made a comment based on what I heard on here and I think it was misconstrued at no one's fault however. We are all just of differing opinions.



She SHOULD run, NOT step into tumbling passes. Please don't tell her to step into them. The issue with the steps that people are saying is it's supposed to be 3 running steps maximum (well, I guess the text says 1-3 but to do one in my opinion would be inappropriate unless the kid had some fear issue). My personal opinion is that it isn't that worth messing with good tumbling over in the long run. I'm okay with 4 steps, for example, though I generally discourage long runs because they annoy me (we all have our pet peeves...mine is running half the floor...).

As a general answer, the compulsory routines just don't favor some kids, in my opinion (particularly those who are bouncy and powerful but only of average flexibility/turnout). Posture, quality of movement, and foot fault errors are usually scattered throughout routines, whereas just looking at the "big" skills won't tell the whole story. It takes a lot of diligence to perform the entire L5 routine and avoid these mistakes. When we're talking about 7, 8, 9 year olds, unless they naturally tend towards having a long, nice line, it can be very difficult to sort out all the nuances. The previous cycle's L5 routine was, in my opinion, somewhat simpler and probably a bit more forgiving of those with only average flexibility.

Thank you for this as well! She does have a lot of innate power. Her flexibility is more in her back. That was one of the reasons for putting her in gymnastics. She can fold her legs over her head and her knees touch the ground. It almost looks like she is missing a vertebrae. Her legs could be more flexible probably. But that will come in time. Thanks again!!

 

[gymnut1]

You really don't want a too flexible back in gymnastics. You want them to use shoulder flexibility (and good active splits flexibility) in back and forward walkovers not back flexibility. That can lead to back pain. You want a nice strong straight back shape for most gymnastics skills. As for leg flexibility, the time to work on passive splits flexibility is now. Children get stiffer as they get older.

 

[bogwoppit]

Gymnut1 you are so right about that.

We used to call oldest dd freaky flex as she too had an incredibly flexible lower back. She never learned to work the flexibility in her shoulders, so here we are waiting to see a surgeon for her stress fractures in her lower back. Be very careful what you allow her to do if she is that flexible. To have a fourteen year old girl unable to do any sports due to this is truly awful.

 

[lilgymmie7]

Thanks Gymnut1 and Bogwoppitt! That again is one reason why she landed in gymnastics. I know that back flexibility could cause a lot of problems. Thus far, I haven't seen those freaky rolls since moving to level 5. She conditions quite a bit, so I am hopping that is helping her to gain those core muscles that she needs to deal with the back flexibility. Her coaches haven't stated that as a concern thank goodness. There was a gymnast last year where that was a problem for her. Unfortunately, she was having back problems and her mom mentioned something about that pain being related to how flexible she is.

 

[AGM78910]

I have posted about this before. It is hard as a parent to just let the coaches do their job and not sweat about the scores, expecially at the compulsory levels. When my DD was a level 4, I got a copy of the Gymnastics Rules & Score Book (Levels 1-6) (Pink) and it includes the topic "Here's what the judges are looking for in Compulsory meets!" http://www.justgymnastics.com/site/263730/product/1001

I read it to understand what was going on and to be a more educated parent. I never coach my daughter or have any suggestions for her. It helped me to understand the scoring.
Now that she is Optional, I got the Gymnastics Rules & Score Book (Levels 7-10) (Blue).

 

[jasminekayla]

At our gym we actually have a judge come in for all the levels and she works one on one with them on one event. But the best part is she talks it out in front of everyone, so even if my daughter is the one on beam the judge tells everyone the hints, tricks and errors. Parents are invited to come and you can tell which kids listen and which dont. Another thing I do is after meets I make my daughter watch the video. And usually when she watches the video she can see her errors. It might not be all of them but its enough for her to understand some of the score