WAG Optional floor routine dilemma:(

[profmom]

If I have questions or concerns, I feel comfortable raising them, but I would not presume to challenge a coach about routine construction. That's part of the reason that I'm giving the gym thousands of dollars a year. I am paying for that expertise, and I trust that it is well worth what I'm forking over every month. I feel fortunate, because if I occasionally have a question like "what's that drill for?" or "why are the tumbling passes in that order?" the coaches are usually happy to take a few minutes to explain it to me.

What this underlines is that the way a concern is raised is pretty important. I think most coaches would be much more receptive to something along the lines of "My daughter tells me that her dance has been changed in her floor routine, even though we all agreed she was going to have the same routine. I was just wondering why, because we were both very happy with the routine as it was." Very different from "My daughter says that you took her signature moves out of her routine and gave them to other gymnasts, and now her dance moves look awkward and weird even though you promised her she could have the same routine this year. I demand that you put it back the way it was." My children's coaches are professionals, and I grant them the respect for their expertise that I would to any professional, and I go in with the assumption that they have good reasons for doing what they're doing, even if those reasons are not immediately apparent to me.

On edit: I think gasrgoose says exactly what I'm trying to capture here.

 

[cbifoja]

What this underlines is that the way a concern is raised is pretty important. I think most coaches would be much more receptive to something along the lines of "My daughter tells me that her dance has been changed in her floor routine, even though we all agreed she was going to have the same routine. I was just wondering why, because we were both very happy with the routine as it was." Very different from "My daughter says that you took her signature moves out of her routine and gave them to other gymnasts, and now her dance moves look awkward and weird even though you promised her she could have the same routine this year. I demand that you put it back the way it was."

This is key to me. Of course, I would always be respectful of any professional when asking question about their area of expertise. Delivery is important.

 

[Amber]

I understand what you are saying. I also wouldn't send my kid to a gym where I couldn't talk with a coach. But talking to a coach is very different from trying to dictate what's in a routine. The reason I pay thousands of dollars is so the coach (with their expertise and experience) can let my kid flourish in the sport they love. Not for them to take orders from me. That's what I mean by trusting your coach and being at a real gym with real coaches. It's possible the coach has made a bad decision that will negatively effect the routines scores. BUT it's more likely that the parent doesn't understand the development of the sport and what is required for each level and the progression the kid is making. And the reality is that a coach doesn't have enough time to explain every decision they make to each parent who thinks they know better. Sure maybe they could find time to explain this particular situation, but then they've opened the door for the parent to question again, and again, and again. That is why I said find a gym where you trust the coaches and TRUST the coach. I'm guessing this kid is fairly talented being a 9 year old level 7. But no matter how much her mom loves her and how much she wants her routines to be perfect, the kid won't be successful without a dedicated coach who knows what the heck they are doing. And if they know what they are doing and have a plan then they probably will react negatively to a parent trying to tell them how to make the kid successful. It is in the coaches best interest to have the kid successful, that's how gyms attract new business. The assumption the mom here is making is that the coach either doesn't care if the kid is successful or doesn't know how to make her successful. Both of those would be received negatively by a coach worth having.

Ok, I get this. I am not "dictating" anything. I am just asking that a promise from a coach is followed through. Period. This does not involve gymnastics really at all. Just that what was promised DD is followed through on. And not all coaches are choreographers. Coaches have strengths in different areas, just like gymnasts. So I would prefer my DD have have the routine she was promised (last years) which was choreographed, by a choreographer. Get it?

And I trust my coaches to teach my DD gymnastics. But no coach is perfect. They are people, just like us parents. Unfortunately, it seems like some coaches are not willing to admit that.

 

[Amber]

If I have questions or concerns, I feel comfortable raising them, but I would not presume to challenge a coach about routine construction. That's part of the reason that I'm giving the gym thousands of dollars a year. I am paying for that expertise, and I trust that it is well worth what I'm forking over every month. I feel fortunate, because if I occasionally have a question like "what's that drill for?" or "why are the tumbling passes in that order?" the coaches are usually happy to take a few minutes to explain it to me.

What this underlines is that the way a concern is raised is pretty important. I think most coaches would be much more receptive to something along the lines of "My daughter tells me that her dance has been changed in her floor routine, even though we all agreed she was going to have the same routine. I was just wondering why, because we were both very happy with the routine as it was." Very different from "My daughter says that you took her signature moves out of her routine and gave them to other gymnasts, and now her dance moves look awkward and weird even though you promised her she could have the same routine this year. I demand that you put it back the way it was." My children's coaches are professionals, and I grant them the respect for their expertise that I would to any professional, and I go in with the assumption that they have good reasons for doing what they're doing, even if those reasons are not immediately apparent to me.

On edit: I think gasrgoose says exactly what I'm trying to capture here.

I am laughing as I read this. I have not even approached HC yet! And I would not "challenge" the HC on this matter. But as a human, I would be interested in why a direct promise is not kept, on such a simple thing. Had I known the routine would be changed, DD would've just picked some new music. Which will happen next year, anyway.

What my 9yr old tells me, does not go back to coaches verbatim. I am not 9.

 

[Amber]

If I have questions or concerns, I feel comfortable raising them, but I would not presume to challenge a coach about routine construction. That's part of the reason that I'm giving the gym thousands of dollars a year. I am paying for that expertise, and I trust that it is well worth what I'm forking over every month. I feel fortunate, because if I occasionally have a question like "what's that drill for?" or "why are the tumbling passes in that order?" the coaches are usually happy to take a few minutes to explain it to me.

What this underlines is that the way a concern is raised is pretty important. I think most coaches would be much more receptive to something along the lines of "My daughter tells me that her dance has been changed in her floor routine, even though we all agreed she was going to have the same routine. I was just wondering why, because we were both very happy with the routine as it was." Very different from "My daughter says that you took her signature moves out of her routine and gave them to other gymnasts, and now her dance moves look awkward and weird even though you promised her she could have the same routine this year. I demand that you put it back the way it was." My children's coaches are professionals, and I grant them the respect for their expertise that I would to any professional, and I go in with the assumption that they have good reasons for doing what they're doing, even if those reasons are not immediately apparent to me.

On edit: I think gasrgoose says exactly what I'm trying to capture here.

I may just use your respectful question verbatim

 

[gasrgoose]

Ok, I get this. I am not "dictating" anything. I am just asking that a promise from a coach is followed through. Period. This does not involve gymnastics really at all. Just that what was promised DD is followed through on. And not all coaches are choreographers. Coaches have strengths in different areas, just like gymnasts. So I would prefer my DD have have the routine she was promised (last years) which was choreographed, by a choreographer. Get it?

And I trust my coaches to teach my DD gymnastics. But no coach is perfect. They are people, just like us parents. Unfortunately, it seems like some coaches are not willing to admit that.

I'm simply offering advice from my perspective, I could be wrong. The statement in bold is where I think you are crossing a line. I hope everything works out great for your daughter and she's very successful. But from what I've seen you are on your way to a gym change. Either by your choice or the coaches choice. I've seen people leave and I've seen people asked to leave. Obviously no one is perfect, but you need to trust your coaches to realize if they've made a change that needs reversing. Based on what you've said here you don't trust your coach to develop your gymnast, so find one you do. You will be much happier when you can drop her off and not question whether or not her best interests are being concerned.

As a side bar, all coaches change routines. We've had Dominic Zito do routines and everyone changes bits and pieces, that's just part of it. Don't get to caught up with the choreographers vision. If your coach is aware of what is current and acceptable then the routine will be fine. If the "signature move" is a dance element that's not a valued or mandatory element, then I'd think hard about questioning the coach about it.

 

[Amber]

If I'm crossing a line by saying some coaches will not admit they are not perfect, I apologize. This is a direct observation of one coach I personally know and what makes it very possible we will choose a new gym next year.

And as for me personally, I keep my promises. I don't break them, but if I did, I would certainly give an explanation, especially to a child. Being an expert at something still doesn't give a person license to be unethical. I'm sure many will disagree with me, and I'm don't want to offend, but that's my stance.

 

[kandkfunk]

lol. Some of these threads go off the rails so quickly.

To the OP, you are not out of line to ask the question. As others have said, delivery is important. You are not a nine year old (as you've stated) so I trust that you will deliver your comments and questions in an adult manner. I would be concerned if you feel you can't discuss things like this with your coach. Open communication and honesty is important to me so I see where you are coming from. Honestly, the coach probably has a very good reason for the changes and it shouldn't hurt to ask.

My DD was in a similar situation during her 2nd year of level 7. Kept the same music & thought only minor changes were going to be made. Turns out the entire routine was changed. My daughter kept trying to get some of the moves, but they were above her. I encouraged her to talk to her coach and see if small changes could be made to make it work better for her. But, my DD was a teenager and not 9.

Good luck!

 

[Seeker]

So I would prefer my DD have have the routine she was promised (last years) which was choreographed, by a choreographer. Get it?

So are you saying that the coaches took moves out of your daughters' routine, that was choreographed by someone else, and put them into other gymnasts routines? Is this choreographer at your gym or someone hired outside of that? I'm assuming you paid for this choreography, so that seems a whole lot like theft to me. I paid a large sum for my DD's new choreo with an outside choreographer and I would be very upset if her coach gave parts of it to someone else next year.

When we left our old gym where the routines were choreographed by the head coach, we were told the routines belonged to the gym and my dd could not use them. That makes sense to me since HC created them herself. But if you paid a choreographer to create this routine, it seems super sketchy to me that they'd lift those moves/sequences and put them in someone else's routine.

 

[Amber]

So are you saying that the coaches took moves out of your daughters' routine, that was choreographed by someone else, and put them into other gymnasts routines? Is this choreographer at your gym or someone hired outside of that? I'm assuming you paid for this choreography, so that seems a whole lot like theft to me. I paid a large sum for my DD's new choreo with an outside choreographer and I would be very upset if her coach gave parts of it to someone else next year.

When we left our old gym where the routines were choreographed by the head coach, we were told the routines belonged to the gym and my dd could not use them. That makes sense to me since HC created them herself. But if you paid a choreographer to create this routine, it seems super sketchy to me that they'd lift those moves/sequences and put them in someone else's routine.

Yep, I paid an outside person for the choreo and HC gave parts to 2 other girls and removed them from my DD's routine. If the routine wasn't great, I couldn't care less. It scored well. And it was designed for her and her music. And DD was under the assumption (was told directly be HC) she could use the same routine this year. HC threw in new moves that don't fit the music. These moves are obviously worse. DD can do them well, they just look weird. So I feel it's a bit unfair.

 

[kandkfunk]

Yep, I paid an outside person for the choreo and HC gave parts to 2 other girls and removed them from my DD's routine. If the routine wasn't great, I couldn't care less. It scored well. And it was designed for her and her music. And DD was under the assumption (was told directly be HC) she could use the same routine this year. HC threw in new moves that don't fit the music. These moves are obviously worse. DD can do them well, they just look weird. So I feel it's a bit unfair.

OK, to me that makes a big difference. You paid for the routine. It should be your DD's. Does your team handbook or other paperwork say anything about choreography? Sometimes, even if an outside choreographer creates the routine, the gym will still try to exert ownership. I don't think that's right, but I've seen it.

I would definitely speak to the coach and find out an explanation. You might want to prepare yourself to hear something you don't like or don't agree with.

 

[Amber]

OK, to me that makes a big difference. You paid for the routine. It should be your DD's. Does your team handbook or other paperwork say anything about choreography? Sometimes, even if an outside choreographer creates the routine, the gym will still try to exert ownership. I don't think that's right, but I've seen it.

I would definitely speak to the coach and find out an explanation. You might want to prepare yourself to hear something you don't like or don't agree with.

There's nothing in any paperwork about choreography. I'm going to wait a little while and see if the new moves get changed. If not, I'll ask as politely as I can. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best

 

[gymdog]

I think most likely there is a reasonable explanation because what everyone is describing on this thread makes no sense to me. Something is being lost in translation.

I would just email the coach and say "I remember we discussed the option to keep the same routine or get a new one. DD told me some of the moves got changed in her routine and I was wondering if you thought she would really benefit from new choreography and music. We did like the old routine, but if you feel something new would really be necessary to score well, then let me know." And just see what you get back.

 

[my4buffaloes]

I think you have a very valid concern and have every right to bring up very specific dance moves that you paid to be in your dd's routine and have been given to someone else. That isn't right. I think you should bring it up. But there are no guarantees it will do any good..

 

[kandkfunk]

@Amber did you ever get a chance to talk to the coach about your DD's routine? It's been a couple weeks since your original post. Just curious about the outcome.

 

[Amber]

KandK, the routine was changed back and I never even spoke to HC! From what HC told me (about 3 days ago), is that little DD wasnt't putting enough "showmanship" into the changed routine. And she usually really "works" it! So it was changed back. I know DD was bummed about the changes, I had no idea it translated onto the floor!

My plan was to wait a while and just see how the changed routine looked after it had been practiced awhile. I am glad it changed back. I don't care if two other girls have same moves...they are not on same Level as DD.

Now to get the scary beam routine perfected....

 

[kandkfunk]

Glad to hear it worked out. Good luck this season!