MAG OPtional frustrations :)

[skschlag]

So we have talked about this before, but saw it in several instances last night, amongst our own team!

The kids with fewer skills, a SLIGHTLY more tight, score points higher. And I am giving benefit of the doubt with the more tight. THe boys will even say, "I don't get how I scored more, he was tighter and did more!"

for instance, one boy on the team, on pbars did:
kip cast, dip front uprise, bail to moy, L sit, handstand, stutz, peach glide (caught parallel to bars), back uprise handstand, back lo 1/2 twist dismount (took 3 steps). scored 11

teammate:
kip to Lsit, peach glide (caught at bottom of swing), back uprise, handstand, back lo 1/ twist dismount (took 1 sstsep). scored 11.5

then high bar:
one kid did:
kip cast free hip underswing, back uprise, pause, back giants, blind change, front giants, pirouete, back giants, to lo flyaway, 1 step

2nd kid:
Kip cast baby giant pause, back giants, blind change, front giants, pirouette, back giants to lo flyaway, 1 step

both bend knees on their first giants, and their feet come apart in their blind change.
one scored 8.4, other scored 10.1 althought their routines were very similar. Both are missing LOTS of things on hb.

One does a tsuk tuck vault and is outscored by one doing a yami****a 1/2.

Boht boys were confused, even the one with the higher scores didnt get it!! I will never understand optional scoring!!

 

[ZJsMom]

Yup. Especially in level 8, the shorter cleaner routine wins. It doesn't even have to be that much cleaner. I saw it a lot on floor. The kids with three passes got the higher execution scores. The reality is that most kids are going to take at least a tenth deduction on each tumbling pass. So the kid who does five passes takes .5 right there. My ds was frustrated in level 8 by seeing kids with short easy floor routines outscore him. Floor is one where he really refuses to do a short routine.

When you think about it, if the goal is to score say 70, you have 60 points you can get from execution. If they can get most of those, they really don't need too much from difficulty. This year, my ds has been getting into the 12s on p bars by doing glide kip, cast catch, uprise, L hold, press handstand, piked half dismount. He just doesn't give the judges anything to deduct (except on the dismount).

 

[skschlag]

So, I guess my questions comes with the routine construction. It says they have to have 8 skills....do they not automatically deduct if they do fewer?

 

[ZJsMom]

Actually, you get credit for up to 8 skills. 6 is the minimum to start from 10 on execution.

 

[ZJsMom]

Frankly, between you and me, sometimes I laugh at my DS's short p bar routine. It's like, "that's it? How is that enough to get a 12 something in level 9?" but it works. That said, he's upgrading to a longer routine for the championship meets. He needs to work at getting it as clean as the short version though.

 

[skschlag]

Actually, you get credit for up to 8 skills. 6 is the minimum to start from 10 on execution.

That helps a lot! d has been so worried about having 8 skills that I think he is doing things he shouldn't! I will make sure he knows that. That will help with the high bar changes he is wanting to make, that will actually upgrade his routine with fewer skills

 

[skschlag]

Frankly, between you and me, sometimes I laugh at my DS's short p bar routine. It's like, "that's it? How is that enough to get a 12 something in level 9?" but it works. That said, he's upgrading to a longer routine for the championship meets. He needs to work at getting it as clean as the short version though.

I htink D is lengthening his floor routine. He has a few things he really wants to put in. He told me last night...but has to run it by coach. I have no say!!!

I have always wondered how those short routines score so well...that makes all the sense to me now

 

[skschlag]

OK..another question from D this time

If you do more than 8 skills, which 8 do the judges use?

 

[ZJsMom]

The top 8. So if he did 6 As and 4 Bs, they count 4 As and 4 Bs.

There is a danger in the shorter routines, that if you don't get credit for something, you get hit for the short routine. It happened to my DS on p bars when he didn't hold the press handstand and the judge didn't give him credit. He scored more than 2 points lower than his last meet. Extra elements give you some insurance. But really, an extra A only gives .1 in start value. So unless the gymnast can do it with no deductions, it doesn't pay off.

 

[skschlag]

All very helpful! I understand more now Thanks

 

[ZJsMom]

So here's the short easy level 8 floor routine that my DS hated and why it works:
RO, BHS, BT, FT, scale, cartwheel (or dive roll after the FT to avoid a landing deduction), BLO. Most of the kids who did this would have no deduction or .1 on the BT, .1-.2 on the FT, .1 on the scale and up to .3 on the layout. So the execution comes out to 9.3 or better. The routine gets the 2.0 EGR and has 6 As and 1 B for another .8. Going 9.3 gets .2 in execution bonus, so 3.0 plus 9.3= 12.3+ for a ridiculously easy routine. And if they stick the layout, it's 12.5+.

My DS refused to do a level 8 routine that easy.

 

[skschlag]

Yeahe. I read that to D, and he replied...um no!

He would rather have harder and score lower. Hoping that eventually he will clean it up. I think that is the plan over the next 3 weeks. Clean it up, get more EG on rings, maybe on hb, and maybe one more difficult tumbling pass. Nationals really isn't even on the radar honestly...

 

[ZJsMom]

Yup. That's my DS too. He has a drag press HS in his routine and sometimes he goes too far and can't hold it. Since the short hold deduction is .3, I said "why don't you just sub something you can do without deduction every time like a cartwheel." He says "if you can't do a press handstand, you're not a gymnast." Apparently, it's compulsory in his mind.

 

[skschlag]

Our boys sound similar. He won't do something if it is horrible, but he won't take something out just because it might have a deduction. He'll get there, and the skills will click...just probably not this year.

 

[profmom]

So here's the short easy level 8 floor routine that my DS hated and why it works:
RO, BHS, BT, FT, scale, cartwheel (or dive roll after the FT to avoid a landing deduction), BLO. Most of the kids who did this would have no deduction or .1 on the BT, .1-.2 on the FT, .1 on the scale and up to .3 on the layout. So the execution comes out to 9.3 or better. The routine gets the 2.0 EGR and has 6 As and 1 B for another .8. Going 9.3 gets .2 in execution bonus, so 3.0 plus 9.3= 12.3+ for a ridiculously easy routine. And if they stick the layout, it's 12.5+.

My DS refused to do a level 8 routine that easy.

Hahaha, one of DS's friends who's now at another gym did this exact routine Friday at L8 states because he's been off tumbling for months with sore knees and only did floor last week to get ready for states. One of our L8 guys was slightly bemused and slightly ticked that the guy ended up with a 12.4 for it while his routine, which included both a front double and a back double full twist, scored only .6 higher!

 

[sce]

Boht boys were confused, even the one with the higher scores didnt get it!! I will never understand optional scoring!!

Take outt eh word optional and I'm right there with you. Ds's coach videos them on his ipad. He slowed down ds' routine and showed me each place he could have gotten a deduction. Every circle with flexed feet etc. There are things we don't see. I also know that more skills means more places to deduct.

My ds has scored better on rings without his bonus, it's a cleaner routine altogether and less places to lose points. His errors with the bonus seem to outweigh the value of the bonus.

 

[profmom]

Oh, the inlocate? That thing is a deduction magnet for some judge. Same thing with high bar giants -- they can lose more on the cast getting into the darn things than the bonus is worth.

DS's awesome younger teammate didn't make the endo bonus in his floor routine at states. It was really disappointing, because the kid has a press handstand so beautiful it would make you cry. But no bonus, no element, and a fall -- real score killer.