Parents Prep Op and Level 6 concerns...please read and comment :)

[AlexsGymmyMom]

My dd did the one level 6 meet to score out and go 7 and it really wasn't that hard - they put the routines together in less than two weeks. If the gymnast is training Level 7, throwing together the Level 6 routines are very simple. The vault is the same as 7, the low bar is essentially the same as 7, and the floor and beam are essentially the same as 5 with just a few changes. My dd and two others from our team scored out at the same meet and the worst of the them had a 34.5 with a fall. They only have to score a 31 for mobility. If the girls are ready to compete Level 7 then the Level 6 meet is truly just a technicality. Our gym does not do prep-op so I don't have a good opinion on that but I've heard it keeps kids involved that might not otherwise be able to move through the levels. I've also heard that they are considering nationalizing it so it is the same in all regions, now I think each region can choose its "version" of prep-op. It is always a big achievement to get to optionals, in a way, I think prep-op devalues that achievement because it allows really low level gymnasts to be "optionals" but I understand that there are gymnasts that might not every reach Level 7 on all events that can be successful Prep-ops. I doubt there is a right or wrong, just different.

I am not usually one to get upset but this section of your post really bothers me as my DD is on of the girls that will most likely do Prep op this fall.

How does Prep-op devalue optionals? It still takes just as much hard work to get to level 7 for girls who go the prep op route as it does for those that have followed the USAG levels to a tee. Many girls that do prep op return to the JO levels. My DD for example is not the best at the compulsary levels but I am sure that doing a full year of prep op as opposed to a full year of Level 6 will keep her much happier in the sport and can show off her strengths.....she is certainly not the cookie cutter compulsary gymnast! I am sorry that you feel this way.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

USA Gymnastics is going to nationalize the program: GYMCATS: Nevada State I think this will lessen confusion when gyms cross state lines to compete in Prep Optional meets. My DD's gym's prep op. team went to Pennsylvania this past season to compete and the standards and levels were so much different from my state. I think that by nationalizing the program, it will be more consistent from state to state and make for a more level playing field when teams want to do a travel meet.

In my state, currently there are novice, intermediate and advanced divisions. I will say that MANY of the advanced gymnasts have successfully completed a full season of L7, and did very well. (The coaching is VERY GOOD and the girls are constantly upgrading skills as the girls are ready, w/o the pressure of the JO program) My DD also had a very successful Prep Optional season after being literally emotionally beaten down by her old gym. It was truly a win-win situation for her. The gym where my DD participated in this program runs it VERY WELL!!! The girls in the "advanced" division are, for the most part, 8th grade through high school. The girls have decided that academics are more important, or they want to have time to participate in other high school extra curricular activities. It really gets hard once the girls are entering their high school years and they are NOT trying to pursue that gymnastics scholarship. What to do... try to become more active in other things in order to pump up those college applications? It's a tough decision, prorities change and it's not just that they can't "hack the JO system." They are not "failures" at gymnastics, as I'm getting the sense some people here seem to think.

As far as "mobility" from Prep Op to the JO system, like any other level, if they can "score" out of a "level" in the JO program, they can then proceed to the next level. Now... maybe this is more of a reality for those participating in the "advanced" or Gold, Platinum or Diamond divisions. But it's still there.

I did read the website on the Excel program, and it does state that there may be mobility between the programs. I'm excited that the Prep Opt. programs seems to be evolving.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

My dd did the one level 6 meet to score out and go 7 and it really wasn't that hard - they put the routines together in less than two weeks. If the gymnast is training Level 7, throwing together the Level 6 routines are very simple. The vault is the same as 7, the low bar is essentially the same as 7, and the floor and beam are essentially the same as 5 with just a few changes. My dd and two others from our team scored out at the same meet and the worst of the them had a 34.5 with a fall. They only have to score a 31 for mobility. If the girls are ready to compete Level 7 then the Level 6 meet is truly just a technicality. Our gym does not do prep-op so I don't have a good opinion on that but I've heard it keeps kids involved that might not otherwise be able to move through the levels. I've also heard that they are considering nationalizing it so it is the same in all regions, now I think each region can choose its "version" of prep-op. It is always a big achievement to get to optionals, in a way, I think prep-op devalues that achievement because it allows really low level gymnasts to be "optionals" but I understand that there are gymnasts that might not every reach Level 7 on all events that can be successful Prep-ops. I doubt there is a right or wrong, just different.

I also don't understand out the Prep Optional programs devalues optionals. Have you ever seen a prep optional meet? Anyone who attends one of these meets will see that the lower level preps are equivalent to about a level 4. (In fact, some of the gyms used to actually USE the level 4 USAG routines - until that was banned!) I don't see how that "devalues" any JO optional routine. By this same thinking a Level 7 routine would devalue a Level 10 routine?. You're trying to compare apples to oranges, it doesn't work.

Oh... and some of the more advanced Prep Optional girls had been level 7 or level 8 gymnasts prior to making the switch.

 

[2gymmies]

First, I'm sorry to have upset you - maybe prep-op in our state is different. I haven't seen any prep-ops that could have been Level 7's or 8's - Prep Op Gold seems to be girls that don't have their level 7 skills but are getting old enough that they want optionals or want to progress on some events to do high school but cannot meet the requirements on all events. Prep-Ops here don't have to qualify to state, either, they just get to go automatically if they compete one meet. I don't think many gyms here use Prep-Op like the original poster said as a stepping stone to Level 7. Again, I'm sorry to upset you.

 

[MaryA]

It is always a big achievement to get to optionals, in a way, I think prep-op devalues that achievement because it allows really low level gymnasts to be "optionals" but I understand that there are gymnasts that might not every reach Level 7 on all events that can be successful Prep-ops. I doubt there is a right or wrong, just different.

I think that Prep Op is a great option to have... Imagine if the ONLY choice in gymnastics was USAG. Better to have more girls stay excited about the sport than quit because they feel like they're "too old" for their level or because they're finding the prescribed music and routines less than captivating or because they want to also have time to play soccer (or whatever).

However... I get where 2gymmies is coming from too. Out of Kathy's level 5 team, the two oldest (going into 6th grade) are moving on to Prep Op. They did not have a fantastic level 5 season... neither of them even get their "move-up" score (though there's another advantage to prep op... I've seen gymnasts who are mediocre in the levels really find their stride and shine in Prep Op) and will start the season with one level 5 meet to try to get the 31 that illuded them last year. But after that meet, they're going to be getting their own music, their own routines, etc. whereas the younger gymnasts, including a couple who did quite well at level 5, are still working their way through the levels. It will be AT LEAST another year before they get to do optionals, and that's the best case scenario. I'm imagining that there's going to be some jealousy from their younger teammates due to the "coolness" factor that comes from doing optionals.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

First, I'm sorry to have upset you - maybe prep-op in our state is different. I haven't seen any prep-ops that could have been Level 7's or 8's - Prep Op Gold seems to be girls that don't have their level 7 skills but are getting old enough that they want optionals or want to progress on some events to do high school but cannot meet the requirements on all events. Prep-Ops here don't have to qualify to state, either, they just get to go automatically if they compete one meet. I don't think many gyms here use Prep-Op like the original poster said as a stepping stone to Level 7. Again, I'm sorry to upset you.

Well I'm going to back you up here. As far as I know, I haven't seen anyone in our state do prep-op in the way that is being talked about in the other posts- basically being used as a stepping stone between levels. Prep-op in the state my girls compete in is seen (at least by the two gyms my girls have been at) as a level of last resort, for lack of a better choice or words. The girls who are good gymnasts go through the levels as USAG states and the girls that have issues with making it to the next level after repeating their current level for 2 or 3 times move on to prep-op for the end of their gymnastics career. If they are younger than High School age, they may use prep-op as a bridge over to compete until they get to High School to keep active in the sport if they can't make it to the next level. There may be other gyms in our state who use it otherwise, but my girls came from one of the most competitive gyms in the state and we have been at a middle of the road gym for the last two years and this is how I see it consistently used. I sat with one of the head judges in our state at our home meet when I was a bar timer for the prep-op meet and this is how the program was explained to me. Whatever works for each gymnast and each gym/coach is fine, it just depends on what the goals are. If longevity in the sport is the goal, then adding all of these extra levels are going to make that happen, for sure. It's certainly more money for the gyms and for USAG. I also agree that in my state the best prep-gold is about the equivalent of a weak level 7. In fact, the girls who took the top spots at the prep-op state meet were girls who did 2 or 3 years of level 7 at my dds old gym and couldn't get their level 8 skills. Nothing wrong with that, but I they all quit after state, because call it whatever you want if one is not progressing in the sport after awhile, it tends to get boring.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

No offense taken at all.... I just think this discussion shows why the program needs to be nationalized! And I do think the Prep Optional program is a great option for older girls focusing on their academics (or whatever) as well as for the younger girls who just don't want to put in the time needed for JO. I still don't understand how it devalues JO optionals tho.... because as you all have even stated, the lower prep op level routines are nothing like L7 and above JO routines! Same for the occasional rec meets that are put on by gyms. These girls have their own routines as well, yet it's nothing like Prep Op or JO routines either. I think most people involved in gymnastics know what the programs/routines are and accept them accordingly.

I wish I could post some of my DD's teammates Prep Op routines on here. One girl had completed Level 7 2 seasons ago, and was training L7/8, but started to crack under the pressure. She spend this last year as a Prep Op "advanced" and did some BEAUTIFUL routines including some great L7 skills on bars/beam and her extreme flexbility was just beautiful to watch on floor... all of splits/leaps were at least 180 degrees and she had great amplitude in her tumbling as well. She is now working on toe shoots on bars and her double BHS for beam... yes, she will still be doing prep op in the fall!

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

I am glad to know that there are other avenues for girls who still want to stay active in the sport but also want something outside of gym. I think the Prep Op program fits the bill perfectly. It does seem to have some issues with how it is being used in different states. There are no prep gold, silver, advanced, intermediate and such here. It is just prep op. Here is a link to the requirements

Prep Opt Rules

They are very similar to level 6 with some 7 elements that can be added. I would be interested to see how other states run the prep op program. It is to bad that it is seen as a last resort in some areas. But at least they do have that option!

 

[2gymmies]

I guess it is the perception around our state - the "privilege" of reaching optionals and having your own music, routines, etc. is no longer the same accomplishment because girls that are level 4 or 5 (and competing the lower levels of prep-op) have no idea the time and work that it takes to achieve Optionals and yet they get some of the fun of it. It is obvious that your prep-op is totally different. Or maybe different gyms use the program in different ways. As I originally said not right or wrong just different. I think around here it is a money maker to keep kids in the sport that would otherwise quit because they can't move up through the levels. When gyms don't know what to do with someone in the JO program (especially someone who has done 2 or 3 years of a level and can't get the next level) they stick 'em in prep op - occasionally they are able to finally move up that next JO level, but usually they just hang out in prep-op a year or 2 and then move on to something else. I've seen girls who couldn't qualify to state as a level 4 go as a prep op because there is no qualifying score. I guess the "devalue" to me is that it doesn't require the same dedication and level of achievement to be optional as it used to. Maybe a bad word choice?!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Dunno....they still must compete 1 level 6 meet and get the "score" for moving up....then they will do prep op and move to 7 when ready. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks. I am very confused.

you and me are in the same boat on this one. let's keep paddling in the sea of confusion!!

and after reading 2ymmies post above...maybe this is just another thing to add to the dumbing down of america. i'm just sayin...

 

[gymgal]

When prep-op first started, it was a level used for those girls who completed 6 but didn't have skills for 7 yet or didn't want to commit to the dedication needed for 7 but still wanted to compete. But it has grown to a total program now. i know there are some states in which prep-op is still considered a "lesser program" for those not committed to or not able to handle the compulsory program but in many states, the prep-op program is comparable to compulsory in skill and talent level. It's not used as a lower program - it is used as an alternative (sometimes a supplement as well) to get to the higher levels.

2gymmies: it most definitely takes the same dedication and level of achievement to get to optionals. Prep-ops is NOT optionals - it is prep-to-optionals. The girls who make it to true optionals have to show dedication and talent for several years to reach that point, regardless of if they went the compulsory or prep-op route. Trust me - none of our gymnasts feel they are "in" optionals until they actually get to level7. It is a BIG deal to them to reach that coveted level 7.

Region 8 and NC in particular has a great prep-op program and a lot of gyms in our state use it as an alternative to compulsories. It allows coaches to tailor make routines to the individual gymnasts' strengths. The one downside I see particularly in the lower levels is that because there is a wide range of what counts within a level, often times the girls who compete the harder skills will score lower than the other girls because there's more room for error (wobbles, bent legs, etc). For example, in our bronze, there are girls competing BHS next to others doing only backward rolls. There are no bonus points for adding more advanced elements. As a result, routines often get watered down so the girls can place higher, particularly at states and regionals.

Our gym competes prep-op only (no compuls.) and then moves to level 7. It has been doing this for several years now without any problems. the girls usually test out of level 5 and 6 without any difficulty. why test out instead of just competing it for a year? - with testing out the girls don't work on perfection. They learn the 5 and 6 routines just enough to perform it well enough to score out (31 I believe). For most girls, that's really not difficult at all. They have one extra practice a week to work the routines for about a month during the summer.

As for why some gyms choose to compete prep-op instead of compuls., I think it gives the girls a leg up to optional competition. The coaches and the gymnasts learn to capitalize on the individual strengths and build those over the course of 3-4 years before they get to optionals. That can be a huge plus in routines. Also, a lot of the girls keep their routines year to year, just changing or adding the required elements so they really internalize the routines.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

And just to show HOW different every state is, here's the link to the Virginia program. Note that girls at Level 6, 7 AND 8 may participate in this program: http://vausag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2010-2011VAOP_RG_12-21-10_revised.pdf Don't know how many do this concurrently, but I HAVE seen the some of the same names posted at both Prep Op meets and L7 or 8 meets...... interesting. At any rate, this is even more reason why it should be nationalized (in my humble opinion).

 

[lhmom]

I know for DD's gym, there's only going to be the one group doing prep op and that's the girls who would've normally gone on to 6 after this past season. DD's group and the 1st yr. level 5's will be doing compulsory only. I remember hearing that the HC was just wanting to try this instead of having the girls compete level 6. I guess this is not that uncommon for our state: went back and looked at the # of level 6 teams at the last state compulsory meet and there were 9 teams (in contrast: 18 teams competed level 5, 17 teams competed level 4). The prep op team will be level 5 this upcoming season until Dec. then prep op until March. I have no idea when these girls will test out of level 6 (maybe next Aug? when the compulsory season starts) but I do know these girls are also working on optional skills. No one knows if the HC will do this again after this season-guess it will depend on how this group does.

 

[gymmommy72]

Ihmom...very interesting. Sounds like what flip4fun's gym is doing. Apparently a lot of gym's are doing this. My question now is what is going to happen with all the changes are coming to all the levels in the upcoming years? Anyone whose dd has done prep op and then level 7 please provide your experience....very interesting post. Great conversation going on here.

 

[flip4fun]

Gymmommy72.....it's not my dd gym but my cousins daughters gym.....but none the less. I talked with her today and directed her to the site. She told me her dd wasn't thrilled about this and isn't sure she wants to continue at her gym...she loves her gym but really wants to do level 6. Thanks for all the input....it's been very informative. I am not sure how I'd feel if it were my dd gym...it would be tough. Thanks everyone...keep the discussion going...obviously prep op has a bad rap and through this discussion we get to hear what prep op is like through various regions.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

and after reading 2ymmies post above...maybe this is just another thing to add to the dumbing down of america. i'm just sayin...[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more.

 

[lhmom]

Well, I do know that the girls doing 2nd yr 5/prep op season at our gym are practicing the amount of hours that last year's level 6's did. So I definitely don't think our coaches are looking at prep op as an easier path to optionals. DD's gym is closed this week, so I will ask around next week about the HC's reasoning behind this change.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

The issue with prep-op being replaced by the good old USAG level system, IMO, is that while I understand why some people don't like compulsories, there really is a place for them and a REASON for them. I'm sorry, but I'm old school. There needs to be FOUNDATION in gymnastics which leads to good, solid technique in gymnastics. If one really wants to be a good gymnast and be safe in gymnastics, IMO, I believe it has to be achieved by having a good base at the bottom. The problem I've seen lately is that everybody is in such a rush to move their kid along (or the kids want to move along). There is no patience in repeating anything. Gymnastics takes a long time and is about perfecting skills. Rec kids want to move onto the next class without getting proper skills, parents and gymnasts want to move to the next level without doing well in the level before. I'm sorry, but prep-op to me is another example of rushing through the system in order to move ahead to hurry up and forget about perfecting skills that need to be better so that you can work your way up the ladder to achieve mastery of the sport. As I've heard a lot of coaches and parents refer to it as "Slop at the top". I'm really not trying to offend anyone, truly, but when my girls started gymnastics, they had to go through a process and be patient and WORK HARD and see if they really wanted to commit to this sport and you didn't get on team and get to compete until level 5. I understand that there are advantages and disadvantages to that, but if you want to be good at anything you have to work hard to get there. There has to be a work ethic, something you rarely see anymore in kids. I've heard it complained about over and over and over by coaches in mass. Parents have to bribe their kids to go to gym and the coaches work them too hard, etc. This is a hard sport. School is hard, etc. Goes back to the dumming down of America. Sorry, off the soap box. I do understand there is a place for everything, but compulsories were put in place for a reason.

 

[2gymmies]

you and me are in the same boat on this one. let's keep paddling in the sea of confusion!!

and after reading 2ymmies post above...maybe this is just another thing to add to the dumbing down of america. i'm just sayin...

I don't understand?

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

The issue with prep-op being replaced by the good old USAG level system, IMO, is that while I understand why some people don't like compulsories, there really is a place for them and a REASON for them. I'm sorry, but I'm old school. There needs to be FOUNDATION in gymnastics which leads to good, solid technique in gymnastics. If one really wants to be a good gymnast and be safe in gymnastics, IMO, I believe it has to be achieved by having a good base at the bottom. The problem I've seen lately is that everybody is in such a rush to move their kid along (or the kids want to move along). There is no patience in repeating anything. Gymnastics takes a long time and is about perfecting skills. Rec kids want to move onto the next class without getting proper skills, parents and gymnasts want to move to the next level without doing well in the level before. I'm sorry, but prep-op to me is another example of rushing through the system in order to move ahead to hurry up and forget about perfecting skills that need to be better so that you can work your way up the ladder to achieve mastery of the sport. As I've heard a lot of coaches and parents refer to it as "Slop at the top". I'm really not trying to offend anyone, truly, but when my girls started gymnastics, they had to go through a process and be patient and WORK HARD and see if they really wanted to commit to this sport and you didn't get on team and get to compete until level 5. I understand that there are advantages and disadvantages to that, but if you want to be good at anything you have to work hard to get there. There has to be a work ethic, something you rarely see anymore in kids. I've heard it complained about over and over and over by coaches in mass. Parents have to bribe their kids to go to gym and the coaches work them too hard, etc. This is a hard sport. School is hard, etc. Goes back to the dumming down of America. Sorry, off the soap box. I do understand there is a place for everything, but compulsories were put in place for a reason.

Sorry to quote the whole post, but I just felt like my simple response is exactly to this kind of program...

It all depends on the way the gym runs their prep opt. programs.

My DD's prep op team (at her previous gym) was made up entirely of girls who had already successfully completed JO compulsories and some had even very successfully completed L7. The "novice" girls had all been culled from the developmental programs, so their skills were solid for L3/4 girls. There was no "rushing" to get to the novice or intermediate levels of this program. The thing I LOVE about this program, is that it is all individualized and obviously the girls who throw the harder skills usually score better (my observation in my state). The girls all scored very well and were generally top in their divisions. The girls from my DD's current gym, who also participate in this program, are also among the top finishers of their meets.

Once again, I think this is a great program for girls who want to remain involved with the sport, but are not willing to commit to the excessive hours that are required to move to the upper level optionals.

I honestly don't see a problem with this. Not everyone is wanting to work the hours required to become a level 9/10 or pursue a college scholarship. I'm getting the vibe here, that if the girls aren't willing to do that, then they shouldn't be participating on gymnastics team at all? What about when they get to college and they want to participate in NAIGC?? They shouldn't do that either because they haven't put in the time and hours to pursue the JO L10 when they were younger?

I do know that many more gyms are now offering a prep optional program in the gyms here in Virginia, and I think that is just wonderful.

Anything to keep the girls involved in a sport most have spent years in anyway, the better they are. Too much unstructured time + teenagers = bad!!!