Parents Prep Op and Level 6 concerns...please read and comment :)

[gymgal]

and after reading 2ymmies post above...maybe this is just another thing to add to the dumbing down of america. i'm just sayin...

I couldn't agree more.[/QUOTE]

Why would you both think this? Just because Compulsory was around before prep-op doesn't mean that it's a better program, particularly in the regions that have build up the prep-op requirements. I personally think that our prep-op program in NC prepares the girls for optionals better than the regular compulsory program.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

I couldn't agree more.

Why would you both think this? Just because Compulsory was around before prep-op doesn't mean that it's a better program, particularly in the regions that have build up the prep-op requirements. I personally think that our prep-op program in NC prepares the girls for optionals better than the regular compulsory program.[/QUOTE]

Well, I explained in another post why I think compulsory's are important. It all depends on what your goals in the sport are. I know that all kids goals are different and before I get attacked, I realized that not everyone aspires to be elite or level 10 or get a college scholarship, etc. However, I would be interested in how many upper level gymnasts went the Prep op route or whose coaches would think that would be a good option if they thought their gymnast had a lot of potential to head to the top.. I'm not going to say much more because I really don't want to offend anyone, but Prep-Op is mostly seen by most people I know as a dead end, not as a stepping stone. AGAIN, it may be where we are from. That's the overall feeling and yes I have sat through a prep op meet or two. Even the parents whose kids were doing it (who had previously been level 7's) thought their kids were dumming down. They easily won every meet they did. They just couldn't get their skills for the next USAG level and ended up quitting.

 

[MaryA]

Is there other sports that would have similar conversations as this? If a kid was interested in soccer and didn't want to put in the time/money/effort that it took to be on the top traveling team, would we tell him/her that he/she should not do soccer? Or that it would be O.K. for them to kick the ball around on weekends, but not O.K. for them to compete? To keep the sport vital, there has to be ways for people to participate at all levels. The reason why there's a mobility score in USAG is to make sure that girls have a basic foundation at each level before they move to the next. If you feel like someone who does a season or two of prep op and then scores out of level 6 with a 31 doesn't have the basic foundation needed to move on to level 7, then maybe the discussion we should be having is if USAG has set the mobility score too low... not whether or not girls should be able to do prep op.

 

[gymgal]

The issue with prep-op being replaced by the good old USAG level system, IMO, is that while I understand why some people don't like compulsories, there really is a place for them and a REASON for them. I'm sorry, but I'm old school. There needs to be FOUNDATION in gymnastics which leads to good, solid technique in gymnastics.

it sounds like you think that prep-op doesn't teach the same quality of skills that compulsory does. this is not true at all. Girls going through to level 7 either by compulsory or prep-op will have the same skills and mastery. You can't get to that high a level without the basic foundation you describe. It's just a different way to get there. Personally, I think you are going to see an even bigger shift toward prep-op instead of compulsory in the coming years. More coaches are realizing the benefits of starting girls in their own routines that fit their personalities, bodies, and talents at the younger levels. This is not "dumbing down" of gymnastics. It's adding an element individuality. The success the prep-op programs in states like NC will help to show that prep-op is no longer a program for "girls who couldn't make real team". 90% of the girls that I see at my dd's meets in prep-op could easily compete in levels 5-6 but their coaches choose this path to optionals as a better one for their gyms and their girls.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

it sounds like you think that prep-op doesn't teach the same quality of skills that compulsory does. this is not true at all. Girls going through to level 7 either by compulsory or prep-op will have the same skills and mastery. You can't get to that high a level without the basic foundation you describe. It's just a different way to get there. Personally, I think you are going to see an even bigger shift toward prep-op instead of compulsory in the coming years. More coaches are realizing the benefits of starting girls in their own routines that fit their personalities, bodies, and talents at the younger levels. This is not "dumbing down" of gymnastics. It's adding an element individuality. The success the prep-op programs in states like NC will help to show that prep-op is no longer a program for "girls who couldn't make real team". 90% of the girls that I see at my dd's meets in prep-op could easily compete in levels 5-6 but their coaches choose this path to optionals as a better one for their gyms and their girls.

Well, I'm going to let Dunno weigh in on this one. I agree that prep-op programs will become increasingly popular, but as they do, USAG is losing more numbers at the top levels. All one has to do is look at the pie charts or go to the upper level meets and see it. Gymnastics cannot be compared to soccer and is indeed more commonly compared to figure skating. There is a skill level set one needs to be proficient and yes I do believe a 31.00 is too low to move up and so do most gyms, which is why they have their own standards. Again, compulsory gymnastics doesn't allow girls to AVOID skills that they find too difficult or don't want to work hard at to achieve, which is why it's the easier choice. Yes, optionals is about being able to work around your strengths and weaknesses, but at the top levels you can't opt out of difficult skills. You have to achieve skills that you aren't good at on all 4 events if you are really going to make it long term in this sport. If staying in this sport long term isn't the goal, well, fine. But they say prep-op is about retaining gymnasts. I believe that's only true in the short term for awhile longer, not in the long term. Again, JMO. To each his own, truly

 

[lhmom]

The issue with prep-op being replaced by the good old USAG level system, IMO, is that while I understand why some people don't like compulsories, there really is a place for them and a REASON for them. Goes back to the dumming down of America. Sorry, off the soap box. I do understand there is a place for everything, but compulsories were put in place for a reason.

Guess I must be missing something, because I'm not seeing prep op replacing compulsories. Even though DD's HC is trying this, she and DD's other coaches are really "old school" trained under the Soviet system (Romania and Russia). To say that they are exact about form and compulsory moves would be an understatement. I can't see them "slacking off" on this group of girls because they are doing part of the season as prep ops. These same girls have been uptraining and I have seen five of the six girls already doing giants as well as their ROBHSBT and BWO's on beam. As I mentioned earlier, these girls do not have a decrease in hours doing prep op either. It honestly just depends on the program. DD's HC may very well decide that this is not working and go back to having a level 6 team again.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

it sounds like you think that prep-op doesn't teach the same quality of skills that compulsory does. this is not true at all. Girls going through to level 7 either by compulsory or prep-op will have the same skills and mastery.

I believe that some may have the same technique, but I don't believe they will have the same skills, as they are trying to work with their strengths and weaknesses. My oldest dd had major fear issues with the backwalkover on beam, as well as clear hip issues, etc. She almost wasn't put on team because of not getting that kip. She got it literally the last week before they were allowed to compete. She was forced to work through these issues, not around them. She had to work over and over and over to get those required skills and work through it because it was required. I didn't think she'd make it to level 5, much less past level 6, truly. I really believe if she had been able to work around those skills and able to do something else, she wouldn't be where she is now. The gym she was at had high standards for allowing them to compete and it made her work hard to achieve those skills. Thus when she faced issues with backhandsprings and series on beam, yurchenkos, release moves, and double backs, etc. she knew there was no way out. Again, just my experience. I admit that I have high expectations of my kids, without being a psycho crazy gym parent, but I would like them to reach their potential if they have it and if THEY want it. I guess that's what I see wrong many times in today's society, as well as in gymnastics now. If it's too hard, we make it easier for kids, we don't expect them to rise to the challenge.

 

[Bella's Mom]

From what I can tell with speaking to prep op parents in our gym, our HC uses prep op for girls who have competed L5/L6 but don't have skills yet to go up to the next level. We use prep op to keep these gymnasts in the gym without requiring them to compete JO anymore.

At least one of our last year L5 girls is going to compete prep op to prepare for L7, then do a one meet score out, and move up to optionals without competing a full year of L6. Our coach was very reticent for this path because she doesn't want the girls to use PO as a short cut to optionals but a special case was made for one girl because of extenuating circumstances. But our coach expects this to be the exception rather than the norm because she still wants to have a full L6 team.

 

[GymnastJoy]

Wow! I am a sometimes poster who just checked in and am taken aback by all of the negative reactions to gymnasts who follow a non-USAG path. My own dd is a L5/L6 and quite frankly I hadn't really heard of prep-op until now but cannot get over how moms of gymnasts feel that gymnastics is an all or nothing sport. Granted, my dd has only been in compulsaries and is not yet at the higher levels so I may be naive, but in my time as a spectator in this sport I have quickly realized that ALL gymnasts put in A LOT of time, energy, sacrifice, and dedication to do what they do. Most other sports are not so demanding but gymnasts do it because they LOVE it. Why should that be taken away from someone just beacause they are in a less competitive or recognized league? Why should it be considered "dumbing down" the sport? Why should gymnasts have to quit the sport if they want/need to spend more time on academics, religion, etc.? Or if the money is no longer there? Or if they have a block on a skill and just can't get it they should quit altogether? I just don't get it. Isn't the goal for kids to do what they love and be supported? They are just kids after all. And gymnastics can teach so many invaluable life lessons. I would hate for one of them to be that if you are not the best then just quit or be pushed out. I come to CB for information and have gotten so much from the BTDT moms who have been in the sport a long time and are kind enough to share their knowledge. I respect that and have made decisions for my own dd based on it. But lately it seems like unless you are a USAG gymnast who is on the podium getting 36+ you should quit. That is wonderful for those gymnasts who will certainly reap the benefits but not all kids have that goal in mind. Some are in it for the love of the sport and should be supported and respected for it.

 

[MaryA]

Gymnast Joy... you wrote the post I tried several times to write, but it never sounded quite the way I meant it to, so I never hit "post." Thank you for saying it so well.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

GymnastJoy, I love your post. My thoughts exactly... There is something for EVERYONE who loves gymnastics... not everyone WANTS to follow the JO path all the way to L10... but at least they have a great alternative to that path. I don't get the negativity toward this program (or any other alternative program) at all. The fact that it is becoming more successful and popular is a testament to the need for it.

Someone earlier had mentioned the fact that gymnasts tend to drop out toward the higher levels. I got the impression that poster thought that the Prep Op program was taking those gymnasts away? Unfortunately, that is and has been the trend toward higher level gymnastics for YEARS. Skills get harder, other activities become more attractive, injuries take their toll, fears develop, etc....

Gymnastics is NOT a sport MOST girls spend years and years in anyway. And it's rare that adults participate in it, unlike adult soccer leagues, softball, field hockey, etc. If the Prep Op programs keeps them in "for just a few more years," well then, that's the whole point!

 

[nevertooold]

Elitist attitudes suck the fun out of everything. Any program that allows any person to enjoy this sport in a way that is safe and meaningful to the individual participant should be applauded and encouraged. This sport is so fun and amazing and it just burns me up that there are still people in this day and age that think that only those of superior talent and dedication should have the privilege of participating.

 

[MaryA]

This sport is so fun and amazing and it just burns me up that there are still people in this day and age that think that only those of superior talent and dedication should have the privilege of participating.

Superior talent, dedication, and $$$$!

 

[UnoMas]

Great discussion and really timely for me as older DD will be doing prep gold this season as a step from level 5 to hopefully level 7 someday!

The thought that comes to mind is this which I heard from the girls' new coach...
"contrary to what you hear, gymnastics is NOT life".

Honestly, for most girls whether they be in L4, L5, L6, prep op, whatever...gymnastics is not GOING to be life. Even most girls who are in USAG L4/5/6/7 are not going to be olympians or college athletes. That doesn't mean that it can't be a great PART of life for all that love to do it.
I can't imagine my girls without gymnastics having been in their lives. It has taught them so much and made them happy (most of the time) and healthy. My younger DD is about the farthest from what one might consider your typical USAG gymnast...but she is hanging in there and has gotten all the skills and is working on making them pretty. I don't know how far she will go in USAG because of her physical issues, but she is very happy in the gym and is happy when she competes! I am very glad that they have the option to do prep op if that is right for them. Next year I will have one in L4 USAG and one in prep-op and they are both working very hard in the gym. Older DD who is doing prep gold is working on a TON of new skills...flyaway, back tuck, BWO on beam...and getting them...instead of repeating L5. She is also going to be dancing competitively and does NOT plan to let up on her gymnastics training. She is working towards becoming a "real" optional when she is ready.
I always say "whatever works". I think looking down on any gymnast in any program is a shame considering that even at the lower levels, the girls do put in hours and sweat and tears and should be rewarded and respected for their efforts.

 

[maryRS]

But there is not just one path for everyone to follow, and not every gymnast has the same goals. My daughter competes at a Y, and we never have a big prep op team, but I'd say there is always 1-3 gymnasts there at any given time. It serves a purpose for the girls who are using it, for whatever reason that is. For some it is a true Prep Op where the gymnast has done level 6, scored decent but isn't quite ready for level 7. We had another girl in prep op who had a huge growth spurt during her 2nd year of level 5 and there were certain skills she was just unable to master like she had before her growth spurt. She was on the older side, and loved gym, but the coaches worried she would quit out of frustration. They let her finish the season doing prep op, doing skills she could master while working on re-gaining some other skills and working through the growth spurt. It worked for her, she competed level 7 the next year and did well. We've had the occasional girl there who plays a sport in HS but wasn't ready to give up gym, another girl focusing on school primarily and not wanting to give up gymnastics, who ended up going to an Ivy. There is nothing wrong with any of this, and if Prep op, or something else, allows these girls to stay in a sport they love, do it safely and have fun, then I applaud a program like that. I think it's awesome!

Wow! I am a sometimes poster who just checked in and am taken aback by all of the negative reactions to gymnasts who follow a non-USAG path. My own dd is a L5/L6 and quite frankly I hadn't really heard of prep-op until now but cannot get over how moms of gymnasts feel that gymnastics is an all or nothing sport. Granted, my dd has only been in compulsaries and is not yet at the higher levels so I may be naive, but in my time as a spectator in this sport I have quickly realized that ALL gymnasts put in A LOT of time, energy, sacrifice, and dedication to do what they do. Most other sports are not so demanding but gymnasts do it because they LOVE it. Why should that be taken away from someone just beacause they are in a less competitive or recognized league? Why should it be considered "dumbing down" the sport? Why should gymnasts have to quit the sport if they want/need to spend more time on academics, religion, etc.? Or if the money is no longer there? Or if they have a block on a skill and just can't get it they should quit altogether? I just don't get it. Isn't the goal for kids to do what they love and be supported? They are just kids after all. And gymnastics can teach so many invaluable life lessons. I would hate for one of them to be that if you are not the best then just quit or be pushed out. I come to CB for information and have gotten so much from the BTDT moms who have been in the sport a long time and are kind enough to share their knowledge. I respect that and have made decisions for my own dd based on it. But lately it seems like unless you are a USAG gymnast who is on the podium getting 36+ you should quit. That is wonderful for those gymnasts who will certainly reap the benefits but not all kids have that goal in mind. Some are in it for the love of the sport and should be supported and respected for it.

 

[exgymnastmomx3]

Wow! I am a sometimes poster who just checked in and am taken aback by all of the negative reactions to gymnasts who follow a non-USAG path. My own dd is a L5/L6 and quite frankly I hadn't really heard of prep-op until now but cannot get over how moms of gymnasts feel that gymnastics is an all or nothing sport. Granted, my dd has only been in compulsaries and is not yet at the higher levels so I may be naive, but in my time as a spectator in this sport I have quickly realized that ALL gymnasts put in A LOT of time, energy, sacrifice, and dedication to do what they do. Most other sports are not so demanding but gymnasts do it because they LOVE it. Why should that be taken away from someone just beacause they are in a less competitive or recognized league? Why should it be considered "dumbing down" the sport? Why should gymnasts have to quit the sport if they want/need to spend more time on academics, religion, etc.? Or if the money is no longer there? Or if they have a block on a skill and just can't get it they should quit altogether? I just don't get it. Isn't the goal for kids to do what they love and be supported? They are just kids after all. And gymnastics can teach so many invaluable life lessons. I would hate for one of them to be that if you are not the best then just quit or be pushed out. I come to CB for information and have gotten so much from the BTDT moms who have been in the sport a long time and are kind enough to share their knowledge. I respect that and have made decisions for my own dd based on it. But lately it seems like unless you are a USAG gymnast who is on the podium getting 36+ you should quit. That is wonderful for those gymnasts who will certainly reap the benefits but not all kids have that goal in mind. Some are in it for the love of the sport and should be supported and respected for it.

This is a great post and I agree completely. I know that I can come across as negative and I really don't intend to, but I can't tell you how many parents feel "mislead" so to speak by their misunderstanding or lack of communication coming from their gyms and coaches. I just think it's really, really important when a child gets involved in this all involving sport that the parents need to truly understand what path their child is on. It's all about "Informed Consent". My only intention of even commenting on this topic at all is the confusion over what prep-op is. I've seen a lot of coaches in my time try to "sell" a parent a vision of what is happening with their child whether it be the elite path, the skipping levels path, the TOPS path, etc. I am very passionate about the parents understanding what is going on. When I read that so many people believe that prep-op is a stepping stone to the upper levels or a path "through" it really gives me pause. I personally have never seen a gymnast progress this way up from prep-op to level 8 and beyond and never heard of coaches, judges, or others on the inside of gymnastics speak of prep-op in this way. I've only seen it as the end of the road for gymnasts or a stepping stone to HS. I'm not saying one Can't progress through it, but I haven't seen it. It just sounds like so many parents see it as a different "track", if you will, to achieving proficiency in progressing in the sport and I've never heard it spoken of this way. That's NOT to say it's a bad program and it's absolutely an option and has it's place. However, many gyms have several teams at the same basic levels (The A track) and (The B Track) and I see the kids that coaches just don't think are going to make it past level 7 being put in this program. Take this info for what it's worth. I hear what coaches and judges say this program is. If this is what people are looking for, that's great No problem, no issue at all. It may be different in other areas. And I completly agree that there is NO other reason that a kid should be in gymnastics except for loving the sport and I am passionate about that. Okay, begging out of this thread.

 

[kimskids]

I think some people think that prep op is something girls do who do not want to put the time and effort into excelling at the level 6 compulsories....at our gym prep op between level 6 and 7 is just how they do it. The girls compete level 5, score out of level 6, and then go into prep op. These girls are very excited to be able to do their own routines and pick their music. They still practice the same hours as the girls competing level 5 and up. When they are ready they move to level 7. I don't know of any of our girls who are wanting to stay in prep op. Maybe if they cannot get the skills to move up that is an option but the girls I know WANT to get to the optional levels. My daughter is only a level 5 now but her coaches have told her she will be going to prep op before she knows it and she is excited. I guess some gym's give you the choice of competing a full season (or 2 or 3!!) but our gym seems to follow the prep op between level 6 and 7 route.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Wow! I am a sometimes poster who just checked in and am taken aback by all of the negative reactions to gymnasts who follow a non-USAG path. My own dd is a L5/L6 and quite frankly I hadn't really heard of prep-op until now but cannot get over how moms of gymnasts feel that gymnastics is an all or nothing sport. Granted, my dd has only been in compulsaries and is not yet at the higher levels so I may be naive, but in my time as a spectator in this sport I have quickly realized that ALL gymnasts put in A LOT of time, energy, sacrifice, and dedication to do what they do. Most other sports are not so demanding but gymnasts do it because they LOVE it. Why should that be taken away from someone just beacause they are in a less competitive or recognized league? Why should it be considered "dumbing down" the sport? Why should gymnasts have to quit the sport if they want/need to spend more time on academics, religion, etc.? Or if the money is no longer there? Or if they have a block on a skill and just can't get it they should quit altogether? I just don't get it. Isn't the goal for kids to do what they love and be supported? They are just kids after all. And gymnastics can teach so many invaluable life lessons. I would hate for one of them to be that if you are not the best then just quit or be pushed out. I come to CB for information and have gotten so much from the BTDT moms who have been in the sport a long time and are kind enough to share their knowledge. I respect that and have made decisions for my own dd based on it. But lately it seems like unless you are a USAG gymnast who is on the podium getting 36+ you should quit. That is wonderful for those gymnasts who will certainly reap the benefits but not all kids have that goal in mind. Some are in it for the love of the sport and should be supported and respected for it.

I could not have said this better myself! Thanks GymnastJoy for your post!!

 

[Bella's Mom]

Question.... what was the purpose for which Prep Op was started? I thought it was to provide an alternate path to JO. But it seems like many coaches are using it as a bridge over L6. I also thought that USAG "frowned upon" using Prep Op to skip L6.

I wonder if as many gymnasts/parents would be interested in prep op if prep op gymnasts were not allowed to re-enter the JO program. Of course that "wondering" is based on my (possibly incorrect) assumption about the original purpose of prep op.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

Here in Missouri it is used as a means to get to level 7. You still have to compete at least one Level 6 meet to score out but for lots of girls it is a way to compete with your own routines until you have all your level 7 skills.

I am not sure of the original reason for Prep op but this is how it is used in Missouri. All the Prep Op meets have to be USAG sanctioned and you have to have a mobility score in order to compete at states as a Prep Op.