Parents Spinoff of the high scores vs low scores thread..

[Taurus]

Did not want to hijack other thread but it got me thinking.. why, if the deductions are nationally identical, do the scores seem so varied state-to-state? Judges must use the same rules (esp in compulsories), so what is the cause? I am in a well-known-as-a-high-scoring state, so wanted to compare training hours. Right now, dd is training level 4 = 16 hrs x wk - what about you guys?

 

[Committed]

Did not want to hijack other thread but it got me thinking.. why, if the deductions are nationally identical, do the scores seem so varied state-to-state? Judges must use the same rules (esp in compulsories), so what is the cause? I am in a well-known-as-a-high-scoring state, so wanted to compare training hours. Right now, dd is training level 4 = 16 hrs x wk - what about you guys?

I'm certainly no expert, but scores can vary greatly just from meet to meet (in the same area). Some judges take maximum deductions or look for specific things. I've heard a coach mention that judges were looking particularly at "amplitude" on beam at a recent meet, and that's why some girls didn't score as high as usual.

DD is a L7 and trains 16 hours/ week.

 

[Taurus]

Let's throw a conspiracy theory in the mix- let's say maybe our state's branch of the USAG decided to "encourage" the judging to the high end to make it look like this state has super-strong competitors!!

 

[Taurus]

I'm certainly no expert, but scores can vary greatly just from meet to meet (in the same area). Some judges take maximum deductions or look for specific things. I've heard a coach mention that judges were looking particularly at "amplitude" on beam at a recent meet, and that's why some girls didn't score as high as usual.

DD is a L7 and trains 16 hours/ week.

Are you in a high/low scoring state (in your opinion)?

 

[Committed]

Are you in a high/low scoring state (in your opinion)?

Gosh, I have no idea. 38s don't happen every day. I'd consider anything in the 36s pretty good. We do have pretty high State qualifying scores (the highest I've heard in discussion). In fact, the compulsory qualifying scores generally have to be lowered in order to meet the minimum number of gymnasts for State.

I do notice that scores start low and get much higher close to the end of the season - you know, when they still need some qualifying scores.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I agree that scores start our lower and get higher as the season goes on especially at state and regionals.

I think a lot of it is that there are a range of deductions. Some things the judges can choose weather to take off .1 or .3 for example at their discretion. That discretion will be different for each judge. Also, they are only human and routines on vault and bars can go super fast sometimes, so I think they may miss a deduction here and there too.

As far as the area, I do think that some regions/states are more competitive than others. And in the more competitive regions, gyms are going to be more likely to train more hours, have girls repeat levels, strive for absolute perfection vs getting the skills and moving up. We are in Region 8 which I think is pretty competitive. By the time state rolls around you will see 38's even high 38's in the lower levels and high 37's and up in the higher levels. However, there are areas like Texas where the competition is out of this world and it isn't uncommon to see perfect 10's and scores of 39 plus all the time (or so I've heard.)

 

[Taurus]

I agree that scores start our lower and get higher as the season goes on especially at state and regionals.

I think a lot of it is that there are a range of deductions. Some things the judges can choose weather to take off .1 or .3 for example at their discretion. That discretion will be different for each judge. Also, they are only human and routines on vault and bars can go super fast sometimes, so I think they may miss a deduction here and there too.

As far as the area, I do think that some regions/states are more competitive than others. And in the more competitive regions, gyms are going to be more likely to train more hours, have girls repeat levels, strive for absolute perfection vs getting the skills and moving up. We are in Region 8 which I think is pretty competitive. By the time state rolls around you will see 38's even high 38's in the lower levels and high 37's and up in the higher levels. However, there are areas like Texas where the competition is out of this world and it isn't uncommon to see perfect 10's and scores of 39 plus all the time (or so I've heard.)

Cadybear- will you tell us how much training & what level? I'm wondering if theres a difference in training hours vs high/low scoring states

 

[Taurus]

See, I'm wondering if the high scoring states train more hours, thereby perhaps justifying the high scores or if some states artificially boost the scores, therein giving a hyped-up reputation (ha I just realized I must be experiencing science-fair project withdrawal!!)

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Cadybear- will you tell us how much training & what level? I'm wondering if theres a difference in training hours vs high/low scoring states

Well my dd's gym is kind of at the lower end of training hours right now. DD is Xcel silver and trains 6.5 hours. If she moves up to gold next year she will train 9-10 hours. However there are gyms in our state/region that train 12-16 hours for levels 3 and 4, it isn't uncommon at all.

 

[Taurus]

Well my dd's gym is kind of at the lower end of training hours right now. DD is Xcel silver and trains 6.5 hours. If she moves up to gold next year she will train 9-10 hours. However there are gyms in our state/region that train 12-16 hours for levels 3 and 4, it isn't uncommon at all.

So your state falls in high scoring + high hrs training - oh I hope more people will reply so I can do a bar graph!!!

 

[cadybearsmommy]

So your state falls in high scoring + high hrs training - oh I hope more people will reply so I can do a bar graph!!!

That would be fun!

I even heard of a gym in the lower part of the state that has a homeschool group for their Level FOURS.....I can't say for certain it's true but I have a friend that used to take her dd there and left b/c they were too intense but they score extremely high for compulsories like 39 plus, one of the few gyms that score that high around here.

 

[tooootsie]

In my state.. Colorado. Level 3s typically train 9 hours and 4s train between 12 and 16. I have seen very few kids get 38 at a meet, even 37s hardly ever. Kids that do are likely repeating a level.

 

[mandkmom]

I'm a data nerd....graph away!
I'm in region 8, compulsories typically score high 37-38s to win at state. My dd's age group (level 4) had 37s out to 10th place.

Our gym trains 14/week level 4. And we only had one 37 at state, rest were 36s or lower. I know one area gym (which has 37/38 regularly) and is very strong- has more hours and many kids homeschool. I also know of another, string gym that trains similar hours as ours with generally higher scores- but, they have more coaches. A lot more. And cost more.

 

[raenndrops]

Region 5 ... 7.5 hours a week all levels ... our gym has not had a 37 since at least before the 2009-2010 season (I only have records back that far).

Our highest AA score in my records was a 36.8 (at old L4 and the girl was a repeater... 34.05 high score the year before).

However, we are a YMCA gym and in 2011, one of our girls took 1st AA in her age group for Old L5 at YMCA Nationals ... roughly 36.0.

 

[Taurus]

Oh shoot - the extra info skews the graph (but I LOVE IT!) - ok region 3 here and the top 12 in my state level 3s scored 39s - level 4s top 6 scored 39s - zero 39s in level 5 but 29 scored 38s - of course I have no idea what most of the other gyms in the state train hourly but in our area, 16-20 seems to be the hours for L3-5 /so so far deductible comp is high training hours= high scores

 

[Taurus]

So Raen & Tooots- what do you think? If the correlation of training hrs going up improves scores, would you like the gymnasts to train more?

 

[QueenBee]

16-20 hours for compulsory level 3 & 4 seem absurd. But I guess I can see how that many hours can help you get amazing scores. I just wonder if there is a lot of burn out in those gyms?

 

[Taurus]

16-20 hours for compulsory level 3 & 4 seem absurd. But I guess I can see how that many hours can help you get amazing scores. I just wonder if there is a lot of burn out in those gyms?

Me too QB- I was totally just thinking about that & how it effects states w/ smaller number of gymnasts!

 

[tooootsie]

No... my kids are l3 (2nd year) and got 12 hours, it's enough for that level. They are scoring 37's... but again they are repeating the level.

 

[Mish]

NY here, not a powerhouse state, but scores can get pretty high. DD avg'd between 36.5- 38.350 last year in lv 3. 1st AA at states with 37.85. 1st level 4 meet this year 36.5 was 3rd AA. Pretty typical for the compulsories to score 38s at the top placements. Level 4 trains 12 hours/week, more in summer.