Teaching Flyaway from Cast

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So I've been working with a bunch of my level 6.5-ish girls on layout flyaways from a cast, and I've been pretty successful with most of them; however, I have one girl who is very talented but older (14) and built pretty solidly -- ie, she's too big for me to dependably manipulate her in the air.

Does anybody have any good drills or progressions for training a flyaway from a cast that does not require extensive spotting?

We don't have any spotting belts, but we do have a pit bar -- however, it's not the landing she's afraid of, but the bar, so I don't think the pit bar will help much.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

rock and a hard place geoff. use the pit...save your bicep tendon and back.

 

[gymdog]

Could you stack mats and have her release to her back and lift to candle? That might help a little. You can also put an incline on top and she might be able to flip over off it. That's the only drill I can think of. Can she do cast to tuck flyaway? I learned a cast to tuck flyaway first. We never got spotted at all, they just lowered the pit bar and we did cast to tuck flyaway and eventually learned layouts. By just kinda doing them. Looking back I'm not really sure how, but most of us in my L6 group got it with enough attempts of going from the tuck to the layout.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I'd be fine with either a tucked or laid-out flyaway. She can already do a tucked flyaway fine from a tap swing (though she's still a bit nervous about it).

Generally, I prefer to teach layout flyaways first, and not even teach a tucked flyaway until the gymnast is training double-backs. To me, a layout flyaway is simpler -- it's just a tap swing and a release. But this assumes a gymnast small enough for me to spot through a layout.

 

[bogwoppit]

Can you get a second coach to step in and spot with you?

 

[marie83]

Can you just clarify which bit she is scared of?
Is it the fear of pealing off the bar as she casts, or is she scared of hitting her feet on the bar as she turns over?

For me, it was the fear of pealing off at the back.

I had to do hundreds of 3/4 circles from a cast on the metal bar before I'd even consider doing it on wooden as we didn't have a pit. We went to a pitted facility once a month and I'd do them over the pit no problem. Once I'd done a few into a pit I got over the fear of pealing.

Also I found it easier without grips.

If it is the fact that she is worried about hitting her feet then I'd stack mats up and have her land on her back. If you can, call in another spotter. Or demonstrate with another gymnast that done properly, your feet are nowhere near the bar.

Not sure if thats helps at all! Good Luck!

Marie

 

[gymdog]

I'd be fine with either a tucked or laid-out flyaway. She can already do a tucked flyaway fine from a tap swing (though she's still a bit nervous about it).

Generally, I prefer to teach layout flyaways first, and not even teach a tucked flyaway until the gymnast is training double-backs. To me, a layout flyaway is simpler -- it's just a tap swing and a release. But this assumes a gymnast small enough for me to spot through a layout.

Okay, here's what I'd do. I use this method of spotting for all the kids to teach the flyaway since someone showed me it, as a relatively small female, some of them are the same size as me. however I haven't done it with anyone actually bigger than me. But I get what you mean about not being able to "carry" her like the release to candle carry. I myself could only do that with the really small ones. But this is almost as good, however the downfall is you will probably need to do it on a lower bar than she can swing through with straight legs so she'll have a do a bent leg swing. Smaller kids will be able to do straight leg swings.

What you do is stand facing the kid slightly to the side with your good shoulder towards them. You're going to end up resting the kid's weight on your shoulder. Basically they're going to hold the bar as they would before releasing for the flyaway, with you holding them so their lower back rests on your shoulder, and if it's your right shoulder then your left hand will be on their near side and your right on their far side. Then they let go and you move back a little as you flip/roll them down in front of you, still holding their hips/torso. it's very controlled. Then you can have them do swings to rest on your shoulder, making sure they do a correct toes up, open shoulder position ready for the release. Then they do swings and you catch them in the position, and flip down. At this point they can do layout. You can also start doing it without the shoulder rest but still facing them and flipping them down in front of you holding the torso. However just get used to the shoulder action first and have them used to it. it's very easy to displace them from the bar using this method.

For this girl once she's comfortable with doing it from a few swings, I'd have her cast into it. Cast toes down (make sure she doesn't bend the knees too early) and bent when she needs to (in order for you to catch her on your shoulder in the correct position the bar will probably need to be somewhat low. I just do it on the low bar of a bar set). Then catch her on your shoulder in the release point, etc.

Hopefully that makes sense, I don't have a video unfortunately. Again this isn't exactly ideal because it needs the bent knee swing, but it is very easy to spot without having to hand carry the kid but having a high degree of control.

There's also this drill Though I've never tried it: YouTube - gymnastics - introducing "flyaway" dismount
YouTube - Flipping for Flyaways - Tony Retrosi (a little more explanation in that one)

A drill idea for displacement here:
YouTube - Fly away drill

And this one, which I like, but it's hard to set up, and if she won't do the release now it just may not be for her. What you might do is set up less of a harsh angle and then try. Maybe as last resort: YouTube - gymnastics - introducing "flyaway"

 

[gymgurl]

Ok what we did with a friend of mine who is incredible talented a really tall and she had the same problem for a while so what we did was up at pit bar (i am assuming its the bottom bar that she is scared of) and put a piece of tape on the wall showing the coach where the bottom bar was and they would sit there and would tell them when they would not hit the bar. She then progressed to the set and would just cast down and eventually added a flyaway to it with a spot by our coach to aid rotation and lift if necessary

 

[ValleyTwister23]

Cast Flyaway Drill

I also was having troubles with this dismount. I am not a coach, but I will describe what my coaches had me do, as it seems to be helping.

We took a Resi-Pit and put in into the foam pit about 3 feet away from the pit bar. (This may need to be adjusted depending on the size of the gymnast.) Then, I worked cast flyaway timers. I would face the mat in front support, then cast down and let go at the regular time for a flyaway. My middle back would land on the edge of the Resi, forcing me to roll backward, thus creating the motion of a flyaway. (The backward roll could be done in a tucked or layout position, though I always do mine in a tuck.)

As I said earlier, I am not a coach, but this is what worked for me. Hope it helps!

 

[ryantroop]

Why not just swing higher?

Added bonus - stemme rise!

We teach free hips this way, why not a fly away?

 

[ryantroop]

Another spot that I have seen done is the following -

Assuming spotter is on the gymnast's left side (so, spotter's right arm is closest to gymnast).

With swing, spotter grabs gymnast's left shoulder with left hand, right hand goes to gymnast's stomach/abdominals, and the spotter jumps down with the gymnast for support and rotation.

I still like the higher swing idea as it builds off current knowledge, and develops a sense of independence in the skill.

 

[MissBear]

I would try the pit for thousands and thousands of swing to candle, fall to back. If you can, set up an incline in the pit for the fall to 'back' is angled (obviously toes higher). Then I would gradually increase the height of the incline by putting mats under it. You can also try increasing the angle of the incline if the pit set up allows. I have had success not asking for a backwards roll down after landing, but just waiting until the incline and height make it happen naturally. Then gradually straighten legs/open hips in the roll.

If she is no where near the bar but frightened of hitting, try videoing, or watching others with similar build and technique to see how far they are from the bar (not helpful if you have someone who could hit!).

This is just a variation on the youtube drills but I hope will be helpful.