WAG Tumbling passes

[gymisforeveryone]

I'm new to coach optionals. I have coached a group of girls between the last compulsory level and the first optional level. They'll all move up next season. I have one girl who has never learnt a proper RO BHS. She does it in her floor routine but the back handspring is HIGH. She has straight nice lines but the timing is off and she lands the RO with feet back and chest front. She HATES back handsprings and I have had rough time teaching her the proper positions with little or no progress. She refuses to do back handsprings from standing and only does RO BHS when she is absolutely forced. She also complains wrist pain and sometimes back pain but I'm not sure is it just to make me allow her to skip doing them.

She has nice RO BT and RO LO.
SO, I was wondering if I should let her do RO BHSs as little as possible or go back to very very basics and spend summer just forcing her to work with RO BHS? I know it's very essential skill but then again, she's 14 yo and only does gymnastics for fun and if I made her practice the BHS all summer she would probably walk away...

In level E she has to have

1) Tumbling pass with front tuck
2) Tumbling pass with back tuck
3) Tumbling pass of four flight skills

She's good at front tumbling. She has nice FHS FT... So technically I could make her do three tumbling passes:

1) FHS FT
2) BHS LO
3) FHS (step out) FHS FT (step out) RO (or something like that?)

The problem is that she cannot connect her back handspring to anything and she hates it. So should I make her practice that third pass even if it isn't that "productive"?

I would appreciate more experienced coaches opinions!

 

[CoachGoofy]

Ummm so it sounds like she's doing a roundoff for a back tuck on the way into the backhandspring? (landing feet behind her, rather than feet in front).

I'm a meanie pants & I'd be working on fixing that, fixing the back handspring, doing backhandspring series...bc tumbling just off a roundoff is FUN but there's only so much you can do with it...you can't do anything involving whips...it's possible to do roundoff layout but twisting right off a roundoff is hard...etc.

But. She'd probably not like me at all. There'd be no more roundoff back tuck till I saw a consistent roundoff to series of backhandspring, bc I want to see good, progressive tumbling.

 

[iwannacoach]

You could trick her into finishing her roundoff in the correct position for the bhs. Just promise me you'll spot her through the transition that takes place during my explanation.

Kids, like any of us, rely on memory to do things, and if you warp a person's memory they'll change the way they a skill from memory. Have this kid work roundoff back handsprings form a one step run, or a power hurdle form a 10cm mat stack..... do not use a spring board. Have her do these, with spot at first, every practice until she puts enough effort into her roundoff to make the bhs look the same way it does right now.

Have her maintain that level of work for another practice, but at the end of the session have her do a few from the run she normally used, like she does now. This is when you have to spot, because she'll go back a lot faster than she's used to when she combines the extra power from her run with the "new" power she learned to create while doing the one step run or power hurdle. So just make the skill "harder and then switch to "easier" every so often, and see if that helps.

 

[BlairBob]

I'd probably try to clean up her round off focusing on more turnover. If her BHS is poor, it's probably tweaking her wrists with a lot of wrist flexion and her back. Since she is older, she also will have more wear and tear on her body. Can't say if she is stronger or weaker body type.

FHS StepOut Round off to Back Tuck/Layout.

If she is training as much as a competitive gymnast, I would be more strict. If it's something Rec or like Xcel, I would fight battles you can win and not stress yourself out. Or just kick her out to HS sports, hah jk*.

If she is very powerful I might consider teaching her whip. But this is probably not the case as most women tend to BHS in upper levels whereas men are the opposite.

 

[Aussie_coach]

This problem is not that uncommon. Really the back tuck is easier than the back handspring technically but it takes more power. So if you have a powerful gymnast she may find the round off back tuck easier.
i usually don't let them do back tucks at all until they have the back handspring down pat because it is very hard to learn to do the BHS properly if they are already used to going into a tuck from their round off.

if she is going to high I would not be surprised if it does hurt her wrists and back, if the angle is wrong on a BHS it does put a lot of pressure on the wrists and back, especially if the skill is undercutting. I don't think she would be making it up.

i would have her stop doing the BhS on floor for a while and just have her do a certain number every day on tramp for a few week, when that gets easy, move to tumble track for a few weeks, then eventually beat board to mat and so on. Take the pressure off the skill and take her back to a point where she can do them well and have her do lots of them until her body feels confident it can do it. Most kids dislike skills of they are no good at them. Doing lots in a way she finds easy will build her confidence.

there are other 4 flight passes she could do.

ie front handspring step out - front handspring step out - round off back ttuck front tuck step out. Front handspring step out, round off , back layout.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Ummm so it sounds like she's doing a roundoff for a back tuck on the way into the backhandspring? (landing feet behind her, rather than feet in front).

Yes, that's how she does it. She knows it's not correct but doesn't seem to want to / be able to fix it... We have done those pre - back handspring drills (RO and jump backwards landing on your back onto soft mat) but she doesn't like them and she says she's afraid she's gonna jump to her neck. She also always raises the feet on the way to her back and bends her hips. She doesn't bend hips when se just does a regular RO.

You could trick her into finishing her roundoff in the correct position for the bhs. Just promise me you'll spot her through the transition that takes place during my explanation.

Kids, like any of us, rely on memory to do things, and if you warp a person's memory they'll change the way they a skill from memory. Have this kid work roundoff back handsprings form a one step run, or a power hurdle form a 10cm mat stack..... do not use a spring board. Have her do these, with spot at first, every practice until she puts enough effort into her roundoff to make the bhs look the same way it does right now.

Have her maintain that level of work for another practice, but at the end of the session have her do a few from the run she normally used, like she does now. This is when you have to spot, because she'll go back a lot faster than she's used to when she combines the extra power from her run with the "new" power she learned to create while doing the one step run or power hurdle. So just make the skill "harder and then switch to "easier" every so often, and see if that helps.

I'll definitely give this a try! If she only were a little bit more willing to work with these I think there were no problem. But she has decided she hates doing everything which involves BHS or RO. It's not her fault she wasn't taught the proper technique years ago and she can't understand why she has to suffer from her coaches mistakes and go back to the "little kid's stuff" when others are allowed to do more cool things.

I'd probably try to clean up her round off focusing on more turnover. If her BHS is poor, it's probably tweaking her wrists with a lot of wrist flexion and her back. Since she is older, she also will have more wear and tear on her body. Can't say if she is stronger or weaker body type.

FHS StepOut Round off to Back Tuck/Layout.

If she is training as much as a competitive gymnast, I would be more strict. If it's something Rec or like Xcel, I would fight battles you can win and not stress yourself out. Or just kick her out to HS sports, hah jk*.

If she is very powerful I might consider teaching her whip. But this is probably not the case as most women tend to BHS in upper levels whereas men are the opposite.

Yes she is older girl. This group is for girls who want to do competitive gymnastics but who weren't chosen to "elite track" when they were younger of who started late. They only compete for fun and practice 9 hours a week. She's not the strongest but not the weakest either. She definitely has strong legs.

I have never taught a whip and I think it wouldn't be that easy...

This problem is not that uncommon. Really the back tuck is easier than the back handspring technically but it takes more power. So if you have a powerful gymnast she may find the round off back tuck easier.
i usually don't let them do back tucks at all until they have the back handspring down pat because it is very hard to learn to do the BHS properly if they are already used to going into a tuck from their round off.

if she is going to high I would not be surprised if it does hurt her wrists and back, if the angle is wrong on a BHS it does put a lot of pressure on the wrists and back, especially if the skill is undercutting. I don't think she would be making it up.

i would have her stop doing the BhS on floor for a while and just have her do a certain number every day on tramp for a few week, when that gets easy, move to tumble track for a few weeks, then eventually beat board to mat and so on. Take the pressure off the skill and take her back to a point where she can do them well and have her do lots of them until her body feels confident it can do it. Most kids dislike skills of they are no good at them. Doing lots in a way she finds easy will build her confidence.

there are other 4 flight passes she could do.

ie front handspring step out - front handspring step out - round off back ttuck front tuck step out. Front handspring step out, round off , back layout.

It wasn't my choice to teach her a back tucks before proper back handspring... Sigh. It's hard to start fixing problems which should have been fixed YEARS ago. It's not probably late but it takes much more work now! When they are younger you can just say "no BTs before your BHS is good" and they'll listen to you but now they don't take it that easily. Especially since she has to work her cartwheel-BT dismount on beam also.

Our conversations are like this:

"Hey Anna come here, let's work your BHS"
"No, no, it hurts my wrists and back"
"We'll learn a way you can do them without any pain. Now your technique isn't correct and that causes the pain"
"No, I have decided not to compete floor at all next year. I hate BHS and I'll never learn to do it right way"

She always wins me somehow and I'm too busy to have a real argument with her.

We don't have a big trampoline or trampoline track or even tumble track right now. During summer we'll be able to use a air floor but all the girls say it's very hard to tumble on because it makes the timing so different...

So maybe I'll just do what IWC suggested and make her do them a lot from very short speed on spring floor.

Any other advice?

 

[BlairBob]

More turnover on her round-off but if you are dealing with backwards fear issues, good luck on that.