Parents Gym owner also a judge at meet

[Lilou]

Just curious if this is normal for gymnastics. At a recent meet, the owner of the hosting gym was also a judge for the meet. This seems, in my humble opinion, to be a conflict of interest, but in gymnastics is this just common and normal?
All of the top 3 (sometimes 4) spots in all results were gymnasts from the hosting gym. coincidence or not?
Thank you.

 

[gymdog]

They can't be the head judge on that event judging panel in USAG but this situation (affiliation) is essentially unavoidable in my state due to the judging pool being limited and the amount of meets and sessions that are being requested to be held each weekend.

 

[HoldThePhone]

Our owner is a judge but I've never seen her judge one of our home meets. She is usually meet director.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It can be done. I don't like it. I understand it if judges are limited. But I think an effort should be made to judges that have no association with competitors at the meet.

 

[kitkat]

We have a couple here in Ontario that are owners and judges. And a couple that work at clubs and are judges.
Once my dd vault and bars coach - judged her on beam.
I actually thought she went tougher so it didn't look like favouritism.
The judge/coach was very careful not to make eye contact with her while on beam as she didn't want to distract her.
I think they are pretty careful to ensure there are no conflict of interests.

 

[Lilou]

Interesting.... I have a hard time believing that all gym owners who judge meets at their gyms are impartial since higher ranked gymnasts help their gym. I think some with ethics will try to be unbiased, but I think it would be hard for some too. We have another meet there this year so I'll be curious if she judges again.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

That happens here all the time. We have very few judges and compared to that number relatively many competitions so this situation can't be avoided. Many coaches also need to judge their own gymnasts. I have to judge mine all the time. I'd rather be coaching them but every club needs to bring a judge and sometimes I'm the only one available. Our meet hosts don't pay for the judges like they seem to do in the US?

 

[wandrewsjr]

Just curious if this is normal for gymnastics. At a recent meet, the owner of the hosting gym was also a judge for the meet. This seems, in my humble opinion, to be a conflict of interest, but in gymnastics is this just common and normal?
All of the top 3 (sometimes 4) spots in all results were gymnasts from the hosting gym. coincidence or not?
Thank you.

How would it be possible in any way for us(who were not at the competition) to know if the placements at the competition were coincidence or not? If you are trying to imply that you believe there was favoritism at the competition, that the judge/owner did not judge fairly, then why not just say what you mean?

 

[Lilou]

How would it be possible in any way for us(who were not at the competition) to know if the placements at the competition were coincidence or not? If you are trying to imply that you believe there was favoritism at the competition, that the judge/owner did not judge fairly, then why not just say what you mean?

I'm sorry, it was a rhetorical question... I do think there was some favoritism to the hosting gym. I would not say the winners didn't deserve it, but some amount of favoritism, yes.

 

[gymnastmom05]

We have had that situation a few times. I know it can't always be avoided but I do think there is something weird about it. We all know certain judges look for certain things (like one is into dance, one judges hard on casts, those kinds of examples), I would think a coach would coach to the style/portions of routines they find most important. For example, floor coach believes dance/artistry is an extremely important part of the routine, they really coach to that and teach it well. Now they're the floor judge at the meet, doesn't her team have a little bit of an advantage because she's coached them on the things she finds important? If there was another judge there that looked more at tumbling, would the scores be different? Just like how some judges seem to prefer robotic/sharp moves and some seem to prefer more graceful moves. That's where I think the coach/judge's girls might have an advantage - because what the judge finds important has already been stressed to the girls during practice.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

Not only has our owner and head coach judged our athletes at our meet, she has judged them at other gym's meets. Our girls don't view it as a good thing, if that helps at all.our other coaches who are judges do so as well when their groups aren't competing. Gotta have judges to run the meets.

 

[Lilou]

We have had that situation a few times. I know it can't always be avoided but I do think there is something weird about it. We all know certain judges look for certain things (like one is into dance, one judges hard on casts, those kinds of examples), I would think a coach would coach to the style/portions of routines they find most important. For example, floor coach believes dance/artistry is an extremely important part of the routine, they really coach to that and teach it well. Now they're the floor judge at the meet, doesn't her team have a little bit of an advantage because she's coached them on the things she finds important? If there was another judge there that looked more at tumbling, would the scores be different? Just like how some judges seem to prefer robotic/sharp moves and some seem to prefer more graceful moves. That's where I think the coach/judge's girls might have an advantage - because what the judge finds important has already been stressed to the girls during practice.

Yes, this... ^^^^ You articulated what I was thinking.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I don't personally like it but I think it's pretty common. Our HC is a judge and has judged some of our teams, not dd's teams but some of the lower level teams but it was not at our hosted meet and that was the only time I think. Still not a fan.

In the long run if there was bias it will only hurt them and their future meet attendance in the long run. All it takes is for some of the larger gyms coaches to feel like the meet was not fair and word gets out very quickly on that kind of thing.

It's always im a hosting gyms best interest to run a fair, organized and impartial meet so I do hope for their sake that their gym owner that judged was careful to be impartial.

 

[kayjaybe]

Don't you have 2 judges for every event? If there was a huge discrepency in all the scores between the judges, wouldn't it be noticed and questioned if there was a consistent difference scoring the gym owner's kids higher each time?

 

[Gymmommy71]

We've seen it. Don't like it at all. Everyone talks and complains amongst themselves when they see it (coach/owner from gym X, judging gym X's gymnast at a meet where they are up against other gyms). I can't understand why any meet director would risk tarnishing the integrity of their meet like that - if I were up to me I'd go to great lengths to avoid it, but maybe it's impossible in some situations.

If there's a shortage of judges, maybe judges should start charging more for meets, thus making more people want to become judges, etc.

 

[bookworm]

When we were at a gym that also had the owner who worked as a judge, it was definitely NOT an advantage for our girls. She (the owner) would hammer them with deductions and then the next week at gym, bring up the fact that "I can't believe Suzy from X gym beat you" or some other similar phrase. Our girls did well and a lot of times did place top 3, but when we saw our gym owner as a judge at our meets, we never felt like it gave us any advantage at all. Not sure if all owner /judges are like her but she was the definite Ice Maiden as a coach and a judge....

 

[suebee]

Dd and her team have had the owner/HC of the club, (but not their coach) judge them at meets a couple of times, but not at our home meet. They hate it, lol. It makes them nervous and they feel she is a harsh scorer.

I am curious about the difference in scores between judges, though. Until this year, dd's scores between the 2 judges have been very similar, 0.1 or less apart, but this year, she has had one event at every meet where the scores have been quite different, like 0.5 difference. It's not always the same event either - one time it was floor, one time it was vault. I didn't realize until this year that you could have that much of a difference between judges.

 

[Committed]

I agree that it is NOT a good thing! They know the kids' weaknesses and will score them accordingly!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

See it doesn't matter. If you think the judge/coach/parent you know that is judging their own kids, tougher, easier or perceived tougher/easier. Do they feel they have to be tougher to be impartial? All kinds of what ifs, is its.................None of that is good. Which is exactly why I don't like it.

 

[OzZee]

Here Gyms have to provide a judge for any session that they gave a gymnast attending or pay a penalty.
If judges that weren't coaches could only be included we'd be lucky if there was 1 judge per session, lol.