WAG Concerns re future potential level 4 child

[gymdog]

THANK YOU. Your advice is very reassuring and helpful. Good job to your daughter for getting to level 10 - and to you for supporting her through it. I may need to look into the coaching more - including b/c my daughter complains a lot about her coaches. They're very negative and don't try at all to relate to the kids as people. Very little positive reinforcement. And their communication with the parents is abysmal....beyond bad...all of which I will save for another post. But, either way, I'd hesitate b/c I hear the optionals coaches are much nicer and definitely good (girls get recruited, we have elites, etc.) - and I'd worry if she left they'd not let her back.

Are private lessons a possibility?

 

[Krisztina10]

I do this too. Sometimes maybe we try to empathize with them too much! My daughter has a pretty intense personality and I find I stress out about her much more than my easygoing son. She seems to feel everything so intensely that I want her experiences to be positive all the time, and gymnastics is such a tough road. I'm working on trusting DD more rather than feeling like I need to protect her from every little bump in the road.

I'm exactly the same way. And I know they need negative experiences to learn, develop drive, perspective, and so much more. It's just that she already has a lot of that so sometimes I just wish she could get rewarded. Though I know she feels those rewards when she gets a new skill or the coaches tell her she's doing X really well. It's just hard right after meets sometimes. Lately she's really hard on herself no matter how positive everyone else around her is about her performance. And that's hard to watch. I just hope that it fuels her to work harder and not get down...and that that hard work eventually pays off in a way that resonates with her. I guess I'm afraid of burnout + lack of success = why bother with all the hard work. That would be a bad lesson to take away from the sport. Which is why I KNOW you have to define success in an achievable way and ingrain it in them. But it's hard. One teammate after states kept texting everyone asking their scores, did they medal, how many scores above 9.0...I wanted to tell that girl to turn her phone off and go read a book or something.

 

[Krisztina10]

Are private lessons a possibility?

Her coaches really discourage them except when they're for a unique reason - I think they do this b/c (1) they don't have a lot of time and (2) there are so many girls, so they don't want everyone asking for them. She'd like to work with a coach outside the gym to get a new perspective and to work on some things. It's a big no no - esp in competition season. But she'd love to do it. And I think it'd be great for her. Like if someone tells me that coach X from another gym did great helping her daughter's kip get better and would work with our daughter, I'm tempted. And my daughter is eager. Not sure whether to go against gym rules though. Half of me feels like I'm just looking out for what's best for my kid...then the other half thinks I'm butting in and should just lay off.

 

[CoachMeg]

Haven't read all the comments, but did read the original post. From a coaching perspective, we teach all our kids a standing bhs BEFORE teaching them a round-off bhs. And then tons and tons of round-off drills. All our pre-team kids are working on standing bhs, and all our Level 3s can do standing bhs. All our level 4s can do standing double bhs.

I would be happy to look at videos if you think a lack of quality coaching is giving her bad technique. I come from a very technique and form based gym, and that (along with safety) is our top priority.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all to want your DD to exceed and do well. I think it can be very frustrating to shell out tons and tons of money only to get poor coaching. And this goes for any sport, but especially gymnastics. Poor technique can totally inhibit a child from moving up. To me, not having a standing bhs at Level 4 is a bit concerning IF she is planning on getting to high levels. She'll need a standing bhs on beam in a few years.

 

[gymdog]

Her coaches really discourage them except when they're for a unique reason - I think they do this b/c (1) they don't have a lot of time and (2) there are so many girls, so they don't want everyone asking for them. She'd like to work with a coach outside the gym to get a new perspective and to work on some things. It's a big no no - esp in competition season. But she'd love to do it. And I think it'd be great for her. Like if someone tells me that coach X from another gym did great helping her daughter's kip get better and would work with our daughter, I'm tempted. And my daughter is eager. Not sure whether to go against gym rules though. Half of me feels like I'm just looking out for what's best for my kid...then the other half thinks I'm butting in and should just lay off.

Well you definitely should never do a private with a coach from outside your gym, at least not with the explicit permission of her team coaches. But I would just ask about lessons for tumbling. They might also say she can take an extra advanced tumbling class at the gym, if they don't do privates. That would probably give her some extra work on the back handsprings.

 

[CoachMeg]

Her coaches really discourage them except when they're for a unique reason - I think they do this b/c (1) they don't have a lot of time and (2) there are so many girls, so they don't want everyone asking for them. She'd like to work with a coach outside the gym to get a new perspective and to work on some things. It's a big no no - esp in competition season. But she'd love to do it. And I think it'd be great for her. Like if someone tells me that coach X from another gym did great helping her daughter's kip get better and would work with our daughter, I'm tempted. And my daughter is eager. Not sure whether to go against gym rules though. Half of me feels like I'm just looking out for what's best for my kid...then the other half thinks I'm butting in and should just lay off.

Definitely do not do privates with a coach from another gym.

For 1) It WILL get back to your coaches. One way or another. Either from the other coach or your DD slipping up. Or just your coaches knowing that she is doing a different technique. It will come out eventually.

2) Many coaches teach different techniques on different skills. This could be an issue with the one coach telling your DD something, and then her team coaches telling her another thing. Very confusing to the gymnast and could also hinder her progress in the long run.

3) It's disrespectful to the coaches to go behind their backs and against the gym rules. If any of our athletes are going behind our backs and taking privates with a coach from another gym, it could potentially lead to dismissal from the team. Or at the very least, a meeting with the parent and gymnast.

If it's against policy, it will come back to bite you in the long run. Unless you have plans on moving to this specific gym, think very carefully before accepting privates from them.

 

[MabelSt]

When you talk about opportunity cost of time in the gym to a 9 year old I think you have to think about realistically, what would they be doing if they weren't in gym?

I think you're too stressed out. Your anxiety is coming off the page. I understand- in the past- and sometimes still now- I get really anxious about wanting the best for my kid. But I think you should calm down, maybe do meditation or yoga or just calm reading, something that calms you down.

It sounds like she likes gym. Even if she goes absolutely nowhere with gym, it's not a waste of time. She's happy. She's staying fit. She's learning to be brave. She's learning to keep going despite health issues. And the strength and fitness she's learning will transfer to any sport.

I think gym is more transferable than soccer, and so many kids play soccer now. Gym can transfer to cheerleading, diving, ?.

 

[CoachMeg]

I don't think OP is insinuating that her child is Olympic bound, just that she wants her to be successful at the level she is competing and to have the technique to be able to move up the levels gracefully. I do not think that is an unreasonable request.

From OP's post, it's clear her daughter loves the sport and wants to be successful, and if it's truly a lack of quality coaching then she needs to start questioning it now, not later. I see so many talented kids at meets, and it kills me to see them so poorly coached with such bad technique...especially when they have so much potential.

Most parents don't realize they are getting poor coaching until it's honestly too late. They're new to the team and new to the sport, so they keep their kid in a gym with crappy coaching because they don't know any better. They do decent at level 3 even with poor technique because they have a talented kid but then it really shows in level 4 because it's so much harder. Level 4 bars is going to be a struggle without good technique and it's really going to show in Level 5 (tumbling included). So by the time these parents figure out that the program they are in is crap, the damage is already done. Sure, it can be fixed a little. But it's going to be HARD and frustrating for both the new coaches and the gymnast.

So, OP, my point is that you are asking these questions at the right time and to trust your gut. As a first year level 4 it will not be impossible to clean up her gymnastics. Even if your gym has a great optional program, it doesn't mean anything if the kids don't have proper technique as a compulsory.

And again, I don't know for sure if poor coaching is truly the cause here as it's hard to know without video....but not having a standing bhs as a level 4 (and competing level 3 twice) is concerning. Esp if the coaches aren't actively working on getting that every single floor practice.

 

[LizzieLac]

I think your concern about your DDs potential in the sport is a little misaligned. You can only look at the immediate future, trust me. You can never predict injuries, fears, blocks, or times when everything clicks and they really take off developmentally. Those things happen even to the kids with minimal "talent" and those "naturals."

So, what you can look at and assess is two things. 1) Does she enjoy it? This is simple, because as soon as she stops enjoying it, it doesn't matter what her potential WAS. 2) The gym and coaching. Is it a strong program that give YOUR DD what SHE needs? Is she happy there? Is the culture right for her (and you, to an extent).

Oh and #3, we all have to consider...can you afford it financially?

Based on that, you have to have some faith and let it play out. I get that you want to steer things in her favor...we all want to do that for our kids. But this sport, perhaps more than any other because of the hours it takes to get upper level skills (whatever you define that as), is one that really puts the parent in the backseat and the kid in the front seat. There is no team to rely on to help them make passes and set up plays like in basketball, soccer. etc. It is the kid alone out there on the beam. So, even though your DD is only 9, at the end of the day it comes down to her and coaches preparing her.

 

[Krisztina10]

Well you definitely should never do a private with a coach from outside your gym, at least not with the explicit permission of her team coaches. But I would just ask about lessons for tumbling. They might also say she can take an extra advanced tumbling class at the gym, if they don't do privates. That would probably give her some extra work on the back handsprings.

I asked if she could do a tumbling class at the gym since dd said she wanted to, but I got a firm no.

 

[Krisztina10]

Definitely do not do privates with a coach from another gym.

For 1) It WILL get back to your coaches. One way or another. Either from the other coach or your DD slipping up. Or just your coaches knowing that she is doing a different technique. It will come out eventually.

2) Many coaches teach different techniques on different skills. This could be an issue with the one coach telling your DD something, and then her team coaches telling her another thing. Very confusing to the gymnast and could also hinder her progress in the long run.

3) It's disrespectful to the coaches to go behind their backs and against the gym rules. If any of our athletes are going behind our backs and taking privates with a coach from another gym, it could potentially lead to dismissal from the team. Or at the very least, a meeting with the parent and gymnast.

If it's against policy, it will come back to bite you in the long run. Unless you have plans on moving to this specific gym, think very carefully before accepting privates from them.

Thanks for your posts! Everything you wrote here is what I suspected. It leaves me frustrated because I would like her to get some extra time with someone - specially since she missed a lot of the season due to illness and injury. She really wants to work extra hard this summer to catch up. I think she could use work on her bhs. And ideally vault. She's always struggled on vault - despite being a good runner, her vault run is slow, her punch is off, she pikes, etc. I have tried not to worry about vault though since many kids have a weak event and I hear it's one that may take longer to "click" for some kids. Her coaches tell me - oh she can do wonderful straight leg robhsbhs at practice... Well I haven't seen them. And she definitely has a tendency to undercut - even if her legs are straight. (I can pm you a video). So they sort of fight me on the criticism and seem to think there's not an issue. I don't think the coaches are bad but she just needs more TIME with someone. I don't think they're going to want to give it. And I can't go elsewhere...so what do I do? Dd wants to work on them with someone and I want to find a way to provide that for her. I can speak to the coaches but they will minimize the issue, tell me she doesn't need the privates and of course tell me I can't go elsewhere. (As I said, they won't even permit her to do a tumbling class at their own gym.) And I fear I will alienate them through the process of asking these questions, since they will question my trust in them etc.

I'm not ready to move to another gym and it's not realistic because of driving time and since she adores her teammates. And, again, this gym has a great optional program. I just need to help her get to it - assuming that's still what she wants when the time comes.

 

[Krisztina10]

I think your concern about your DDs potential in the sport is a little misaligned. You can only look at the immediate future, trust me. You can never predict injuries, fears, blocks, or times when everything clicks and they really take off developmentally. Those things happen even to the kids with minimal "talent" and those "naturals."

So, what you can look at and assess is two things. 1) Does she enjoy it? This is simple, because as soon as she stops enjoying it, it doesn't matter what her potential WAS. 2) The gym and coaching. Is it a strong program that give YOUR DD what SHE needs? Is she happy there? Is the culture right for her (and you, to an extent).

Oh and #3, we all have to consider...can you afford it financially?

Based on that, you have to have some faith and let it play out. I get that you want to steer things in her favor...we all want to do that for our kids. But this sport, perhaps more than any other because of the hours it takes to get upper level skills (whatever you define that as), is one that really puts the parent in the backseat and the kid in the front seat. There is no team to rely on to help them make passes and set up plays like in basketball, soccer. etc. It is the kid alone out there on the beam. So, even though your DD is only 9, at the end of the day it comes down to her and coaches preparing her.

I agree with your post and appreciate the thoughts. As I said in my other note, I have some concerns about the coaching fit with dd right now but not enough to switch gyms.

Re letting it just play out: I just want to set my daughter up for success. I know I can't make her succeed and she's the main driver. I just want to put as many of the pieces I can in place for her. And I'm struggling to figure out how to do that. As Coach Meg said, if someone isn't working on the right things with her, then she can't reach her potential. Similarly, I think it's helpful to have a sense of a kid's potential. In an extreme example - if I know she's going to be 6'2 and she's full of slow twitch muscles, I'm not setting her up for success by letting her completely indulge in her love of gymnastics. Doesn't mean I'd make her stop - of course not. But I think people need to play to their strengths. That's life. Many of us would love to do X for a living but we're just not good at it! So if someone could look at my kid today and say even if everything goes well (she likes it, no injuries etc., works hard) she's going to really struggle physically to get past say, level 8, that's good to know. It's a bit of knowledge you stick in your back pocket and when dd comes to decision points down the line - wanting to try new things, thinking about committing less time to gym, or struggling with those decisions, that piece of info is there.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You can't fix it or predict it. It's her journey. Will she make progress over the summer? Probably. How slow or fast? Who knows. Will she stay injury free? Maybe, maybe not. Make it to L5 or 6 or 7 or beyond who knows.

It's her journey and it's not likely a straight steep line.

 

[Jeannie6]

Hi
I'm a level 4 and 5 coach. Your daughter sounds like so many of my girls. Every girl on my team has a ROBHS, most have 2 BHS and a few have ROBHSBT. I work standing back handsprings quite often, because it's the root of most problems. Sometimes I have to spot to correct the problems. The BHS are not all pretty, my girls range from 7 to 10 and need work.
Hopefully some day they will advance to Optionals, but I've seen so many drop after level 5. It seems to be the time they decide if they want to continue the commitment and continue or not.
The most important thing is they have to love it and have fun.
I've been coaching for over 40 years and believe me, at my age the aches and pains have made me think twice. I've actually retired from it twice, but the love of the gym keeps me going home.
Success is defined by the gymnast, what they hope to achieve. No matter what, if it's done right, she will never be left with nothing. She will always have her accomplishments, lessons of being on a real team, lessons of challenge and commitment and what can be accomplished with hard work, blood, sweat and tears. Most of all a love of the sport and being a part of it.
That's worst case scenario, who knows what she can accomplish? At this point, no one. [emoji4]

 

[strawberries]

I just read through this, and I actually sympathize quite a bit with the worry that comes at the beginning as you try to sort out whether you have steered your child in the right direction.

Of course it is their sport in the end, but as a parent it is pretty helpful information to know if your kid has elite potential, or is middle of the pack JO, or would find more success in Xcel, or might enjoy hockey. It isn't a bad question. I have kids on both ends of the gymnastics spectrum, and I'm so glad I know it so I can help set their expectations, find appropriate coaches/gyms, introduce another sport/instrument/hobby if appropriate, and help encourage and guide them in a way that they find fulfillment.

If I was starting a kid in baseball or swimming (both of which I know nothing about) I would want an honest assessment of my kid's potential so I could pop it into the grand equation called parenting. Yes, I might decide to do nothing either way, but I would be exceedingly anxious until I knew roughly where my kid stood...in a ballpark sort of way.

 

[Anna's_Mom]

I thought I'd give a perspective from someone who is at your "what if" stage. DD is 14, competed XCEL Gold last year and this year and did reasonably well. She has just decided this will be her last season as a gymnast. There are lots of sports she could take up in high school if she wanted -- other gymnasts of similar skills have gone on to cheer, diving, swimming, track and a host of martial arts. All of which take similar combinations of coordination, strength and determination. But she isn't planning on doing sports at all. She is planning on putting all of her extra-curricular time into theater and choir. And, in truth, she has turned out to be a better singer than gymnast. But the life lessons she has learned through many years of gym will serve her just as well as a "non-athlete". Heck, her amazing lung power may be because of all of those years of conditioning. Had you asked her at 9, she wouldn't have foreseen this at all. Girls change as they grow up (thank goodness!) -- interests change, skills change, life changes for that matter. I would definitely not worry about that far in the future -- you never know what might happen in those intervening years. If she is enjoying gym now and doesn't want to do other sports, please don't push it. If she starts asking about other activities, then help her explore them if you can. I don't regret her doing gym for this many years and then walking away from it (OK, I regret some of expenses, but I would be doing that if she were Olympic bound I think). I want her to be happy about her choices and I want them to be hers, and only hers. As she is getting ready to start high school next year, gym has given her a lot of skills to build from and I'm happy to see her do just that.

 

[Krisztina10]

I just read through this, and I actually sympathize quite a bit with the worry that comes at the beginning as you try to sort out whether you have steered your child in the right direction.

Of course it is their sport in the end, but as a parent it is pretty helpful information to know if your kid has elite potential, or is middle of the pack JO, or would find more success in Xcel, or might enjoy hockey. It isn't a bad question. I have kids on both ends of the gymnastics spectrum, and I'm so glad I know it so I can help set their expectations, find appropriate coaches/gyms, introduce another sport/instrument/hobby if appropriate, and help encourage and guide them in a way that they find fulfillment.

If I was starting a kid in baseball or swimming (both of which I know nothing about) I would want an honest assessment of my kid's potential so I could pop it into the grand equation called parenting. Yes, I might decide to do nothing either way, but I would be exceedingly anxious until I knew roughly where my kid stood...in a ballpark sort of way.

This sums up where I'm at very well! And I would love to know where on the "spectrum" she falls for the exact reasons you stated. You said it better than I could.

 

[RussianGymnasticforlifeyo]

What is her personality like