Fast-tracking to Elite - Pitfalls or red flags to look for?

[LizzieLac]

I think we are all missing one major aspect of the path of a child in any sport is what it teaches them and provides them to be a better person. These kids, elite or not, learn the value of hard work, pride and humility, support of their teamates, they see the sacrifices their families make to get them to practices and meets, they see the financial cost of paying for coaches. They come to understand their own sacrifices, the hard choices they have to make, they learn how to set goals and sometimes miss them so they learn to handle disappointment better than others.

In my mind, not matter what sport a kid endeavors in - it doesn't last forever. So, shouldn't we be hoping to make better PEOPLE out of our little athletes?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

So the likelihood of failing is the reason to not try?

In short, yes. There's a huge disadvantage to diving in head-first at a young age, and very little disadvantage to waiting. Waiting until they're older does not in anyway preclude becoming an elite; a kid can wait until she's 11, 12, 13, even older before deciding to go elite and still make it there (that is, assuming she has the talent to begin with and has -- most importantly -- spent the time necessary to learn the basics properly.)

 

[bookworm]

So the likelihood of failing is the reason to not try?

That wasn't my point...the point in citing girls who have burned out early is to recognize the risk of this happening with intense training schedules...the girls I mentioned were all great gymnasts who, had they continued , could probably have done very well in NCAA had they been paced but instead they peaked too soon, never to compete in college (although Shoji is on the Yale roster) ...it just seems a shame to see talent like these girls had go to waste because they got burned out...so they did "try" and I guess the "failing" is that they are burned out at a young age and i think this is something one would try to avoid....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

well, this is one of those things where i don't know where to start. as some of you are aware, i'm old. i competed as an athlete both artistically and in trampoline, tumbling, double mini and syncro trampoline. i competed for 13 years. competed internationally at a time when it was very rare. toured with nissen. competed at 2 "worlds" competitions. i tumbled at a time when it was done on a basketball floor and the coach would slide the 'panel mat' beneath the point where we landed our fulls. and did circus for ringling brothers, barnum and bailey, disney, etc; as there was no place for us to go after our careers had ended. it was hard to shake that 'gymnastics monkey' off our backs then and now. but now we have cirque thanks to my generation and the foresight of the owner/cirque founded in Canada.

as some of you know, i have been coaching my entire adult life. have owned a gym for well over 30 years now. been to 2 olympic trials, 2 world championships, have had both boys and girls as athletes that represented the USA in international competitions. have never missed a year at level 10 nationals [which was class 1 nationals prior to 1988]. this has included bringing up a 4 year old that couldn't brush his or her teeth properly to the floor of some pretty high profile competitions. i won't go on further lest i be accused as a braggart...which i am not. i'm schooled, i'm old and a student of the sport.

what stretch doesn't reveal is how many parents are misled in to the forest of elite gymnastics. there has been more destruction than not. unless you've been there for a LONG TIME you would not know the list of pain and suffering and subsequent failure in the name of elite gymnastics. club owners do a lot of things, as well as coaches, that are disengenous. but i've been around the block a few times with most of the people/prefessionals in our sport. less than 2 percent are equal to the same proportion of society that has ills. the other 98 percent are honest, hard working coaches who sincerely are attempting an endeavor with a child that is the most difficult of them all and in the end do what is in their best interest.

we currently have 12 seniors and 18 juniors on the national team. that's 30. there may be an addtional 30 in any given year attempting the holy grail of gymnastics. when we get to the olympic year and selecting athletes, and not just in the USA, it truly is the survival of the fittest and the last ones standing. in 2008, womens, there were only 18 fit and healthy gymnasts remaining to go to championships. 12 were selected for camp. we had 2 scratches in bejing. do the math.

the TOPS program is a great program for ferreting out the survival of the fittest. it truly separates the "men from the mice" so to speak. it is a selection of sorts at a very young age. various countries use something like and similiar. selection systems are paramount to any national and centralized system in any sport. but to suggest that TOPS is the end all, or the path that 1 must take to achieve elite status is misleading and disengenous. i submit that the poster will not be able to name more than 5 kids to have come up thru this program, beginning to end, qualified as an international elite athlete and then went on to make an olympic team. as far as olympic team, shannon miller began in Tops with steve nunno. once he realized what he had, he pulled her from that program and began training her for what lied ahead. Tops is a vehicle or tool for gymnasts. not the end and final destination. we currently have a couple of national team members that 'dabbled' in TOPS although they did not start there from the beginning nor ended there before qualifying to international elite status. and as i think at this moment, i don't believe any member of the 2008 womens team did or participated in TOPS. i will stand corrected in advance in the event that someone points out that "so and so" did it for 6 months when she as 8. i was fully involved with those girls, and my own athlete, 5 years prior to bejing and was living la vida loca along with all the other coaches at the ranch and up to olympic trials. i just can't recall any of them doing TOPS at the moment.

olympic level sports, and more profoundly in gymnastics than any other sport, will always be an end destination for the lowest percentage of total participants. stretch never pointed out just how impossibly hard it is to become an elite gymnast WHEN YOU HAVE EVERYTHING WORKING IN YOUR FAVOR. there are so many variables, but both money and biology 1st come to mind, and that one should never put their eggs in 1 basket. not as a coach, a parent or an athlete. that about sums it up for me.

and i want to remind stretch...this is AMERICA as you so eloquently blessed in the name of God. gym clubs in America are free enterprise systems. they must do what they need to do to stay in business for the majority...not for the less that 1/8 of 1 percent. we are as close to a centralized system than at any point of gymnastics history and won't become fully centralized EVER. i, for one, am thankful for that.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

That wasn't my point...the point in citing girls who have burned out early is to recognize the risk of this happening with intense training schedules...the girls I mentioned were all great gymnasts who, had they continued , could probably have done very well in NCAA had they been paced but instead they peaked too soon, never to compete in college (although Shoji is on the Yale roster) ...it just seems a shame to see talent like these girls had go to waste because they got burned out...so they did "try" and I guess the "failing" is that they are burned out at a young age and i think this is something one would try to avoid....

and i concur with the above although your list of "burned out early" gymnasts are relative to how long you have been in gymnastics. may i submit that the "burned out" list is much deeper than those that survived. and you are right...the holy grail in america is to compete NCAA after one's club career is over. and with a little luck...a scholarship. and with some biological longevity...Ciruqe for a few more years making an above average and sinful amount of money. and after that? what else of course?? you coach!

 

[gymgramma]

Good Luck to your DD......hope she has fun while on her new adventure!

 

[bookworm]

what stretch doesn't reveal is how many parents are misled in to the forest of elite gymnastics. there has been more destruction than not. unless you've been there for a LONG TIME you would not know the list of pain and suffering and subsequent failure in the name of elite gymnastics. club owners do a lot of things, as well as coaches, that are disengenous. but i've been around the block a few times with most of the people/prefessionals in our sport. less than 2 percent are equal to the same proportion of society that has ills. the other 98 percent are honest, hard working coaches who sincerely are attempting an endeavor with a child that is the most difficult of them all and in the end do what is in their best interest.


Dunno- totally agree especially with the above...many parents are misled because they don't know enough and they don't have anyone to ask. At so called "elite qualifiers" in the past couple of years have been gymnasts that weren't even good Level 9s or 10s but their parents had been fed some line about testing elite and so there they were...

 

[bookworm]

and i concur with the above although your list of "burned out early" gymnasts are relative to how long you have been in gymnastics. may i submit that the "burned out" list is much deeper than those that survived. and you are right...the holy grail in america is to compete NCAA after one's club career is over. and with a little luck...a scholarship. and with some biological longevity...Ciruqe for a few more years making an above average and sinful amount of money. and after that? what else of course?? you coach!

that's the unfortunate part...that the list of girls who have been burned out IS long..

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Thank you for rhetoric that transcends its face value. Not acuity nor discernment is suffice to fathom the breadth and scope of all which has been implied. Take a poll. Who are the idols in gymnastics that inspire and ignite our gymnasts to truck on and makes it all worth it for them? Who do they burn as an oracle in the torch they follow in their minds throughout their careers? Who do they aspire to emulate? When you have your collective answers then get back to me.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

That begs the question WHY do coaches send girls to elite qualifiers when they clearly are not ready? How does that benefit the coach or gymnast? Is it just an ego thing that a coach/gym can say they have "Elite" gymnasts? Very curious... Dunno what do you think?

simply change your questions to statements and you have stated it perfectly.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Thank you for rhetoric that transcends its face value. Not acuity nor discernment is suffice to fathom the breadth and scope of all which has been implied. Take a poll. Who are the idols in gymnastics that inspire and ignite our gymnasts to truck on and makes it all worth it for them? Who do they burn as an oracle in the torch they follow in their minds throughout their careers? Who do they aspire to emulate? When you have your collective answers then get back to me.

Kids also aspire to be president. Should we have all six-year-olds start training now for their political futures?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thank you for rhetoric that transcends its face value. Not acuity nor discernment is suffice to fathom the breadth and scope of all which has been implied. Take a poll. Who are the idols in gymnastics that inspire and ignite our gymnasts to truck on and makes it all worth it for them? Who do they burn as an oracle in the torch they follow in their minds throughout their careers? Who do they aspire to emulate? When you have your collective answers then get back to me.

i can not for i am not edgar allen poe nor yoda. and maybe "brush up on my shakespeare" a bit. i regret that i am not intellectual enough to understand a single thing you just said.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Kids also aspire to be president. Should we have all six-year-olds start training now for their political futures?

that's a great statement and question. period.

 

[mariposa]

Thank you for rhetoric that transcends its face value. Not acuity nor discernment is suffice to fathom the breadth and scope of all which has been implied. Take a poll. Who are the idols in gymnastics that inspire and ignite our gymnasts to truck on and makes it all worth it for them? Who do they burn as an oracle in the torch they follow in their minds throughout their careers? Who do they aspire to emulate? When you have your collective answers then get back to me.

I asked my almost 8 year old level 5 daughter what gymnasts she wanted to be like? She gave me a huge list of girls that were at her old gym, her new gym and on YouTube. None of them were elite gymnasts. So not ALL gymnasts aspire to be elite. My daughter knows that the elite track is not something most gymnasts embark on, just as most kids playing little league baseball don't think they will be pro baseball players one day.

Gymnastics isn't an elite sport, it is a sport like any other. There are pros/elites at any sport and then there are the rest of them, from the most basic beginner to extremely talented and advanced. Gymnastics can benefit anyone and everyone and should be for all. There is room for everyone in gymnastics, beginner to elite.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

Here are some right answers...
Larissa Latynina
Olga Korbut
Nadia Comaneci
Mary Lou Retton
Věra Čáslavská
Svetlana Khorkina
Svetlana Boginskaya
Ludmilla Tourischeva
Yelena Shushunova
Shannon Miller
Nellie Kim
Lilia Podkopayeva
Nastia Liukin
Shawn Johnson
Kim Zmeskal
Chellsie Memmel
Dominique Dawes

 

[Stretchsportguy]

People...if you want gold medals then you need to be gold medal minded. I ask you America, "Do you want gold medals?" ...or is "but but but" your worse for wear answer? ...I think you already answered that question.

Yes America has elite coaches and elite gymnasts. But how many of them are elite minded? I believe the answer is less than an eighth of one percent.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

very thought provoking. and obviously you have know idea how america plays and how important america is to the world stage of gymnastics. the whole world tries to compete with us. not the other way around. sounds like more america bashing to me. you totally misunderstood the 1/8 of 1 percent. that is a worldwide percentage.

and for everyone else, an IOC statistic from 1992. it takes approximately 5 million births to net 1 olympian in any sport. now...someone do the math on that. and i'm still not certain stretch is going to get it. whether you are elite minded or not...the statistic doesn't change. all one can hope for is that the "1" ends up in the right situation.

finally, there are not enough gymnastics coaches worldwide to coach all of the kids that there are. this is a logistical problem, not an elite miinded problem. again, another variable in our sport.

bog, i think you're right about the origin of the poster. hope he/she doesn't start in on canada.

p.s. america does not specialize in sports. it's the families that make those choices. making any olympic team in america is a daunting process given our population. we have more athletes than we know what to do with in all sports. we have more gymnasts participating in gymnastics than any other country. we have 4500 privatized gymnastics schools. that's more than all the gym clubs combined worldwide. again, due to sheer population demographics. and american families spend lots of money on music and sports. this is a fact. and last i looked, america leads the world in most sports in gold, silver and bronze in olympic games over all time. i believe they showcased this fact in the bejing olympics. and if bog is right, and you may not be from america and are now living in miami, why did you come here to coach?? answer that in honest language and then i can engage a conversation about the merits and contributions of american gymnastics and all other sports and our systems. and this thought is not to the disrespect or to diminish the same merits and contributions of other countries and their systems of sports training. everyone is getting good. but america has staying power when it comes to sports. we are always there. i may be called an arrogant american. but i won't stand by while someone suggests that we might not be "elite minded". that's absurd. rant is done now.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Here are some right answers...
Larissa Latynina
Olga Korbut
Nadia Comaneci
Mary Lou Retton
Věra Čáslavská
Svetlana Khorkina
Svetlana Boginskaya
Ludmilla Tourischeva
Yelena Shushunova
Shannon Miller
Nellie Kim
Lilia Podkopayeva
Nastia Liukin
Shawn Johnson
Kim Zmeskal
Chellsie Memmel
Dominique Dawes

Mmmmm...dead give away. have you any idea how many countries and how many athletes you left out??? geesh. if any romanian or chinese are at this site me thinks you are in hot water.

and for everyone else that may not know how olympic gymnastics teams are had. the top 12 teams out of world championships in the olympic year go on to the olympics as teams. then there are the individuals. so, given the above list, i see 10 other countries whose gymnasts are not listed. just want a fair representation of the gymnastics world.

 

[bookworm]

simply change your questions to statements and you have stated it perfectly.

totally agree with that!!!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I ask you America, "Do you want gold medals?"

No. I don't.

I want well-rounded kids who enjoy their time in the sport and who go on to lead happy, healthy, and productive lives. If they get a gold medal in the process, cool, but it's not the end goal.