Fast-tracking to Elite - Pitfalls or red flags to look for?

[Billy]

I asked my almost 8 year old level 5 daughter what gymnasts she wanted to be like? She gave me a huge list of girls that were at her old gym, her new gym and on YouTube. None of them were elite gymnasts.

Out of curiosity, I asked my 8-year-old daughter what gymnast she admired and wanted to be like and she said "Nastia and Shawn, and maybe Courtney Kupets." I asked her if she even knows any other gymnasts and she said "Koko from Japan, and Noelle from the Gym Dogs, but I don't want to be like them."

 

[Stretchsportguy]

A better rhetorical question than why I came here to coach is why did it take Béla Károlyi to put the United States on the map? What gap did Béla Károlyi fill that America was in denial to see? The elite mind is a wonderous thing. But if less than 1/8 of 1 percent even have a chance of being elite then what are the chances that anyone will come along and be an elite minded coach? Will our country ever grace us with another Béla? Or should we wait on other shores for a new ship to come in?

 

[Billy]

Kids also aspire to be president. Should we have all six-year-olds start training now for their political futures?

Except that a six-year-old has at least 29 years to prepare for being president (and usually much longer than that). A six-year-old gymnast has ten or twelve years to become an elite gymnast. Little different lifespan on a presidential career.

 

[Billy]

and i concur with the above although your list of "burned out early" gymnasts are relative to how long you have been in gymnastics. may i submit that the "burned out" list is much deeper than those that survived. and you are right...the holy grail in america is to compete NCAA after one's club career is over. and with a little luck...a scholarship. and with some biological longevity...Ciruqe for a few more years making an above average and sinful amount of money. and after that? what else of course?? you coach!

And then the gymnast has a college degree and moves on with her life in her chosen profession.

 

[nevertooold]

Kids also aspire to be president. Should we have all six-year-olds start training now for their political futures?

We already do this, it's called compulsory education.... we give the government schools our children for 7hrs a day beginning at 5 yrs old, 13 yrs later they give them back to us.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

A better rhetorical question than why I came here to coach is why did it take Béla Károlyi to put the United States on the map? What gap did Béla Károlyi fill that America was in denial to see? The elite mind is a wonderous thing. But if less than 1/8 of 1 percent even have a chance of being elite then what are the chances that anyone will come along and be an elite minded coach? Will our country ever grace us with another Béla? Or should we wait on other shores for a new ship to come in?

Again, you're missing the point.

Here it is: gold medals are not the end goal. They are a possible collateral effect for a minuscule percentage of participants. But they are not the goal. The goal is to help the kid grow into a happier and healthier person.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

We already do this, it's called compulsory education.... we give the government schools our children for 7hrs a day beginning at 5 yrs old, 13 yrs later they give them back to us.

Yes, exactly! They receive general education which aims to prepare them for ANYTHING they want to accomplish in life. They receive an education which aims not to prepare them for any specific thing, but to prepare them to handle a very wide range of options. Some will go on to be scientists, some will go on to become teachers, some will go on to become entrepreneurs. A minuscule percentage will go on to run for public office.

Gymnastics should be the same. We should not design the entire program around creating elites, we should design the program around producing happy and well-rounded individuals who will be better prepared to take on whatever challenges life may throw at them.

 

[Stretchsportguy]

The reason for the season is not a necessary evil. On the contrary we should embrace it and nurture its substance. The elite path is one dimensional. Gold medal or bust. Those of us who understand the end understand the means. There is a parallel road with a rhythm that beats to a different drummer. It is specialized and accelerated. The question is where do you find that road and how do you get on it? Does it even exist in America? How good is that road going to be if we build it with a crew that is happy to fall back and fall short? I have drawn back the bow, will my arrow find its mark? Or will I be happy with lettuce when the venison that would have fed me goes lost in the forest? There are many vegetarians born of necessity and by default choose to be happy with it. But for those who long for meat, the proficiency gained at the bow will produce the one dimensional results that puts meat on the table. To the rest, enjoy the hunt.

 

[MdGymMom01]

The reason for the season is not a necessary evil. On the contrary we should embrace it and nurture its substance. The elite path is one dimensional. Gold medal or bust. Those of us who understand the end understand the means. There is a parallel road with a rhythm that beats to a different drummer. It is specialized and accelerated. The question is where do you find that road and how do you get on it? Does it even exist in America? How good is that road going to be if we build it with a crew that is happy to fall back and fall short? I have drawn back the bow, will my arrow find its mark? Or will I be happy with lettuce when the venison that would have fed me goes lost in the forest? There are many vegetarians born of necessity and by default choose to be happy with it. But for those who long for meat, the proficiency gained at the bow will produce the one dimensional results that puts meat on the table. To the rest, enjoy the hunt.

Since when did they combine archery with gymnastics???? Hmmm...maybe a new sport they are introducing in the 2012 Olympics...

 

[Billy]

Since when did they combine archery with gymnastics???? Hmmm...maybe a new sport they are introducing in the 2012 Olympics...

It's a metaphor.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Duh!!!!!!!!

It's a metaphor.

I know that. I was being sarcastic in my reply and I wanted to add a bit of comic relief to the air...

 

[Mariainlv]

This discussion is a good one. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to discount Stretch? Neither side is 100% correct and if you don't listen and weigh the merit of both sides you are 100% wrong.

Last night my DD had practice. Came home and while relaxing, told me she wants to be an elite gymnast by the time she is 14. Huh? I have never talked about ANY level of gymnastics with her (she is 7) so I was a little confused. She said well, Im 7 and training L5 so I think that is a good goal. Explaining to her the real situation was outside of the scope of our sleepy conversation but it got me thinking.

Based on the discussion here should I have told her the impossibilty of said goal? Im still curious where she even heard about this. I think its OK to let children pursue goals, within reason. Gymnastics isnt really so different from other sports IMO as far as children aspiring to greatness. Most little league players dream of the bigs. The main difference is the age range when the bigs happens. In most sports, children get older and realize what it really entails, while in gymnastics, if you wait until you are able to fully understand, its probably too late.

Again, very interesting discussion. For discussion sake I will add DD is an average gymnast so I am not concerned with having to worry about elite and all that it entails..

 

[MdGymMom01]

The reason for the season is not a necessary evil. On the contrary we should embrace it and nurture its substance. The elite path is one dimensional. Gold medal or bust. Those of us who understand the end understand the means. There is a parallel road with a rhythm that beats to a different drummer. It is specialized and accelerated. The question is where do you find that road and how do you get on it? Does it even exist in America? How good is that road going to be if we build it with a crew that is happy to fall back and fall short? I have drawn back the bow, will my arrow find its mark? Or will I be happy with lettuce when the venison that would have fed me goes lost in the forest? There are many vegetarians born of necessity and by default choose to be happy with it. But for those who long for meat, the proficiency gained at the bow will produce the one dimensional results that puts meat on the table. To the rest, enjoy the hunt.

Your reply implies that gymnastics is black and white. Either you go for the gold and be the best or you just might as well quit the sport. It doesn't have to be that way. A LOT of gymnasts do the sport for the sheer enjoyment of it. Wow--enjoyment...what a concept.

 

[Mariainlv]

I know that. I was being sarcastic in my reply and I wanted to add a bit of comic relief to the air...

I think perhaps the sarcasm was overshadowed by the mocking tone... No one likes to be mocked, right?

 

[Mariainlv]

Your reply implies that gymnastics is black and white. Either you go for the gold and be the best or you just might as well quit the sport. It doesn't have to be that way. A LOT of gymnasts do the sport for the sheer enjoyment of it. Wow--enjoyment...what a concept.

I think what he is saying is that enjoyment is OK, but to achieve true greatness there needs to be a system in place that allows development of such and he questions if the current US system is really geared for that?

I dont think it is such a silly idea to have two tracks within USAG.

 

[imagymparent]

6 yo elite

6 yo being put into an "elite track" when she hasn't even competed Level 4? I'm dumbfounded...

I agree, having no experience in competition, a few words of advice, keep an eye on her and how the coaching goes.....good luck

 

[gymdog]

I think what he is saying is that enjoyment is OK, but to achieve true greatness there needs to be a system in place that allows development of such and he questions if the current US system is really geared for that?

I dont think it is such a silly idea to have two tracks within USAG.

Well, we already essentially have two tracks. I'm not really sure what the actual proposal is here. I wouldn't be so quick to discount this poster if I could figure out what he was arguing but to be honest the "metaphors" aren't lending themselves so well to that. As far as I can tell he is suggesting the system is inadequate and should be replaced...with a system we already essentially have (suited to our culture). It seems to have gotten somewhat circular at this point. I think what most of the coaches are arguing here is that if anything many gyms are too elite minded, not the other way around.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

This discussion is a good one. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to discount Stretch? Neither side is 100% correct and if you don't listen and weigh the merit of both sides you are 100% wrong.

Last night my DD had practice. Came home and while relaxing, told me she wants to be an elite gymnast by the time she is 14. Huh? I have never talked about ANY level of gymnastics with her (she is 7) so I was a little confused. She said well, Im 7 and training L5 so I think that is a good goal. Explaining to her the real situation was outside of the scope of our sleepy conversation but it got me thinking.

Based on the discussion here should I have told her the impossibilty of said goal?

I probably would have simply said nothing; I see no reason to discourage an individual athlete from aiming high; I simply don't believe a gym program should be built around such a goal.

Im still curious where she even heard about this. I think its OK to let children pursue goals, within reason. Gymnastics isnt really so different from other sports IMO as far as children aspiring to greatness. Most little league players dream of the bigs. The main difference is the age range when the bigs happens. In most sports, children get older and realize what it really entails, while in gymnastics, if you wait until you are able to fully understand, its probably too late.

This is a very common view. It's also, in my opinion, a complete misconception. I want to reiterate; a gymnast does not need to start training for elite at 6 years old to become an elite. Waiting until she's older does not prevent her from eventually going elite.

It does, however, significantly decrease the odds of her burning out before she gets there.

EDIT: to give an example, let's look at Alicia Sacramone.

Anybody know what level Alicia was when she was 7? I'll tell you: she had not even started taking gymnastics.

 

[nevertooold]

Yes, exactly! They receive general education which aims to prepare them for ANYTHING they want to accomplish in life. They receive an education which aims not to prepare them for any specific thing, but to prepare them to handle a very wide range of options. Some will go on to be scientists, some will go on to become teachers, some will go on to become entrepreneurs. A minuscule percentage will go on to run for public office.

Gymnastics should be the same. We should not design the entire program around creating elites, we should design the program around producing happy and well-rounded individuals who will be better prepared to take on whatever challenges life may throw at them.

But at 5 or 6 yrs old are they really ready to commit to 13 yrs of working 7hrs a day plus homework. That is a huge commitment to make on behalf of 6 yr old, who really cannot understand what they are choosing. And why bother when very few will go on to any type of real greatness. Very few will win the nobel prize, most will become pencil pushers or laborers. Is that worth sacrificing their entire childhood. Couldn't we wait until 11, 12, 13 and then if they really wanted to excel at academia, had the talent, suppportive parents, etc.. there would still be time.

I'm not trying to turn this into a conversation about schooling, just asking that you think outside the box. Aren't there really a lot of viable ways to go about training gymnastics?

If the goal is fun, enjoyment, personal growth, follow path A.
If the goal is a competing NCAA, follow path B.
If the goal is taking a shot at being the best of the best... then what is wrong with that. It may not be the path YOU or most would recommend to parents. It may not be what you want to do or support, but is it not in itself an acceptable path for any who want to take it?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

The reason for the season is not a necessary evil. On the contrary we should embrace it and nurture its substance. The elite path is one dimensional. Gold medal or bust. Those of us who understand the end understand the means. There is a parallel road with a rhythm that beats to a different drummer. It is specialized and accelerated. The question is where do you find that road and how do you get on it? Does it even exist in America? How good is that road going to be if we build it with a crew that is happy to fall back and fall short? I have drawn back the bow, will my arrow find its mark? Or will I be happy with lettuce when the venison that would have fed me goes lost in the forest? There are many vegetarians born of necessity and by default choose to be happy with it. But for those who long for meat, the proficiency gained at the bow will produce the one dimensional results that puts meat on the table. To the rest, enjoy the hunt.

i'll be right back...now i must go " brush up my shakespeare".