WAG Federal Child Pornography Charges Filed Against Dr. Nassar

[twinmomma]

I love all the arguments that the US is many states with different laws, etc.... But the ONE common factor is that ALL these coaches have to be certified by USAG. Guess what? USAG has then the RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the safety of its athletes, NOT just in how to teach a back handspring, which they manage to do, but in ensuring that there aren't predators in the gym. Are there people who will always find a way? Yes. But does USAG need to pony up and share more of the responsibility? YES. End of story. They aren't doing enough.

 

[l.c.o]

Question...

I have not read every article or update on Nassar.

Did USAG directly receive reports of abuse accusations re: Nassar? AND, did they officially have him on staff despite it? If so, then I think USAG is partially responsible for the things he committed while being an official rep of USAG. As in, traveling with the team, any time staying at the ranch, etc. In this, regardless of whether USAG actually broke any laws, I do think it's at the very least ethically wrong and it makes me uncomfortable.

As far as anything else, I sadly think it's a gray area up to this point. I understand the current limitations of the law and the nature of our sue-happy American society. As a parent and a human being, I hope we find a way to make the system better and protect our kids. While I agree with the sentiment that sick people will find a way to hurt our (or some one else's) kids anyway, I don't find that to be a sound argument against strengthening the system. If we applied this logic across the board in life nothing would ever advance, because "it's too hard," which is a ridiculous thought.

There's much to consider though. At what point should a coach be banned? Is the current statute of limitations fair to victims? Who should centralize the system? Is this a private or public affair, or a combination of both?

We definitely need to protect our kids, but there will be arguments to protect coaches, too, which I understand. What if it becomes easier to ban a coach (lower burden of 'proof', for example), and Susie's parents have a falling out with HC... What's to stop them from making false accusations? And if coaches perceive too much risk in this regard, then will any of them want to invest an entire career in this sport? Pointing this out not to be a adversarial (I'm largely on the kids' side... but also the good coaches side), but to highlight some of the troubles when considering ethics and formulating rules/laws. I'm finding myself glad that I'm not in a decision-making position behind deciding whether or not to drive my kid to practice.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Parents. Parents are at fault for not reporting every incident they knew about to the police. Coaches and gym owners who didn't report every incident to the police. Report it all. Believe your children.

 

[profmom]

As I said before the last time we talked about this, some victims of sexual assault have good reasons not to want to make formal reports. If you don't believe me, go back and read the part of the Ray Adams story relating to Bieger's. Until we have broad social change that 1) encourages belief when victimized individuals report sexual assault, 2) removes the severe stigma attached to being a victim of sexual assault, and 3) shifts the framework of sexual assault so that it is understood not as a particularly heinous and besmirching category of wrong, but rather as just another serious crime among serious crimes, we will have people who rightfully fear that reporting could have highly negative and damaging effects in their lives or the lives of their children. I think reporting is the best response, but not reporting is understandable in some circumstances in the world in which we live.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

I wish that my country (Finland) had the same system that the UK has, it sounds really good. Background checks are made here also for everyone who works with children BUT we don't have that qualification system that the UK gymnastics has for coaches. Right now all the coaches are not registered by Finnish gymnastics federation so basically anyone can coach any group and also be on the floor at the meets as long as you have a licence (basically the clubs just buy it for the coaches) but that doesn't require any proof of your coaching skills and only the background checks are made by your own club. I wish we had stricter policies to protect more children and make this sport safer. I also wish we had some general rules about being alone with a child etc and protocols to follow. That would make the world of gymnastics safer for everyone.

Just recently there was an opinion piece written by a gym mom of 3 gymnast in one of our biggest newspapers. It said some very alarming things about one named (big and very competitive) club and their coaching practices. Briefly, the mother wrote about coaches weighting the children at practices, calling them names, attaching their characters, making them practice in pain with injuries and not believing them when they were hurt. The club wrote a response letter and the newspaper immediately went to interview the Finnish gymnastics federation. How did they answer to the accusations? Basically what they said was that they were sorry that this all had happened BUT that people need to understand that "the coaching methods change slowly and there has been some cultural misunderstandings since the coaches come from the Eastern Europe". All that left a bad taste in my mouth. I think they should have and they COULD have done more than that. The least they can do is to make sure that all the coaches who come from other countries go through at least a very basic course or something to proof that they have understood the Finnish laws and appropriate ways to treat and coach the children. I understand that the culture is very different in the Eastern Europe countries but that should not be used as an excuse to treat kids badly. Even if they might not have broke the law in this case, behavior like that from a teacher would have NOT been overlooked.

 

[profmom]

Oh, yes, the "but our coaches are Eastern European/Chinese" excuse. Covers a multitude of sins, doesn't it? (Not to mention that there are plenty of technically excellent coaches from Eastern Europe and China who do not abuse their athletes and don't deserve to be stereotyped in this way.)

 

[gymisforeveryone]

Oh, yes, the "but our coaches are Eastern European/Chinese" excuse. Covers a multitude of sins, doesn't it? (Not to mention that there are plenty of technically excellent coaches from Eastern Europe and China who do not abuse their athletes and don't deserve to be stereotyped in this way.)

That's true! I agree and I want to clarify that there are some AWESOME coaches from all over the Eastern Europe coaching here in Finland!! I'm sure the situation would be better if at least some sort of coaching courses were mandatory for all like in the UK.

BTW, I just checked the online newspapers and now the USAG scandal is in our newspapers too. With big titles.

 

[BachFlyer]

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/12/21/larry-nassar-child-porn-msu/95712364/

 

[curlygirls]

It's like a nightmare that just won't end. Sickening beyond belief.

Now that there is video evidence, I imagine the remaining apologists will quietly back away.

Parents need to demand to know what changes are being made at the ranch to better ensure the safety of their children.

I hear people saying that the ranch is safe, but the bottom line is that it wasn't safe for several (possibly many) of our national team members over the last 2 decades.

 

[suds]

This nightmare provides an opportunity for some soul searching. Through all of this I keep asking myself what can I do myself, moving forward, to better protect the children around me...?

“There can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way in which it treats its children.” - Nelson Mandela

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thing is I don't think finding fault or blame is important in this discussion.
The crux is "does the system do what is reasonable practicable to protect the most vulnerable?" If the answer is anything other than yes, then it needs changing.

this question was rhetorical. the Indy Star continues to blame us all. they said it's our "fault".

 

[bogwoppit]

this question was rhetorical. the Indy Star continues to blame us all. they said it's our "fault".

Until USAG explains the timeline and "clears it's name" the public will continue to believe that USAG "must have known something". You know that is the way the court of public opinion works.

The bottom line is that children need to be protected from adults like Nassar, our job as adults is to make sure that is happening in our homes, communities and in the organisations we support.

I know you do not like hearing this, but until USAG speaks then people will question.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i too am glad that this latest article has shut the mouths of those supporters. radio silence.
nevertheless, our industry is stunned at the magnitude of the allegations.

and my hope is that everyone is paying attention to dates. Indy Star said it was our fault for not notifying Michigan State. Michigan State blamed us also.

and what have i said all along? pay attention to the dates. an athlete at Michigan State brought forth a complaint in the year 2000. now, do you hear the Indy Star or MSU printing a retraction? now who's to blame?

the way i choose to look at this all is this. no industry where there are children will ever be able to eliminate the 'magnet' (the children) which the POS's gravitate to. and no system of protection or safeguards are perfect. these POS's always find a loophole or weakness in the system.

so...thank God for gymnastics. it is our industry that eventually stopped them. maybe not expeditiously enough...nonetheless they were stopped BECAUSE we have such good professional people in our sport. our industry was on the look out for POS's before this all came out...and they will continue to stay on the look out. it's a societal problem and always in a state of perpetuity.

and to answer that question above. the moment Steve Penny learned that there might be a problem the Dr was fired. as this story all unfolds pay close attention to the dates. the timelines will tell the story.

and at the risk of being redundant...there was no conspiracy...no cover up...no hiding coaches that are/were pos's. we have a banned list. wasn't easy to get them banned. but they DID get banned. and it's published. there was a time at the beginning of this banned list where placing someone's name on this list and being published was challenged. USAG prevailed.

there was a time at the beginning when stripping a coach's credentials was challenged. again, USAG prevailed.

read here. https://centers.rainn.org/
a female at any age is sexually assaulted, raped, etc; every 98 seconds.

the truth is, and in the majority of cases, females are targets. it was a sad day not long ago when i had to explain this to my own daughter. the POS's target the females. premeditated...predators. wherever there are females POS's will follow and be lurking.

everyone must be diligent. in every home. in every gym. at every pool, school, etc; in every country. and it's only logical...if the above statistic was happening in the gyms or gymnastics or any other sport industry for that matter...every 98 seconds...there would be NO industries left that service children.

and what of the male coaches in our sport? we have now been surreptitiously 'profiled'. several have already quit the industry and several more have stated they will when this current season is over. many club owners are now questioning the reason and the purpose that they own a gym at all. "it's just not worth it anymore". many will get out.

this is what happens when everyone loses perspective. when there is a witch hunt. and the topic surrounds and encompasses children being abused in any form. but the real question is...does the gymnastics industry have a pandemic problem or disease? NO...society does. does USA Gymnastics have a problem managing this problem? NO...if you know the history and how all of this has evolved within the laws over 30 years then you would agree.

has gymnastics, or any other industry that services children, come up with a device that can detect a POS from coming in to their industry? NO.
are most programs and USAG working diligently to have safeguards in place for early detection of a POS? YES! everyone would like to stay in business and USAG would like to continue providing gymnastics to the masses including having Olympic, World Championship and Pan American Teams to represent the United States of America.

is Dunno angry, saddened, frustrated, disappointed, etc; that we have this cancer at all? YES. and you won't read or hear me defending the perps either. it's indefensible.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Until USAG explains the timeline and "clears it's name" the public will continue to believe that USAG "must have known something". You know that is the way the court of public opinion works.

The bottom line is that children need to be protected from adults like Nassar, our job as adults is to make sure that is happening in our homes, communities and in the organisations we support.

I know you do not like hearing this, but until USAG speaks then people will question.

it will come in due time.

 

[munchkin3]

I love my daughters sport.....I am a CGM.......and above else, I respect the GOOD people in gymnastics......

Nasser will rot in hell......so will Adams, and to countless others all over the world. (I hope)

 

[raenndrops]

it will come in due time.

I figure when the government investigation is concluded and they have permission to disclose without threat of hindering a federal investigation, then USAG will speak up.

 

[Seeker]

I figure when the government investigation is concluded and they have permission to disclose without threat of hindering a federal investigation, then USAG will speak up.

....and until they do, people will speculate.

 

[atlnon]

Why doesn't USAG implement a private database like what was described for England? I used to work for a background check company and there are a lot of precedent and established best practice from other industries for setting up private databases, along with the appeals processes that comes along with it. There's a group of retailers that has established a theft database for cases that do not go to court. The financial industry has the U5 system for reporting employees fired for mishandling customer's money. This system was set in place to combat financial employees that gets fired from one company and just finds a job in another company. There's actually a big scandal with Wells Fargo abusing this system recently and the financial industry is trying to strengthen the appeals process. Bottom line is that this is not unique with gymnastics and other industries has found a way to help address it. If USAG refuse to look into a system like this, then I don't know how they can say they've done everything possible.

 

[coachmolly]

I love my daughters sport.....I am a CGM.......and above else, I respect the GOOD people in gymnastics......

Nasser will rot in hell......so will Adams, and to countless others all over the world. (I hope)

Honestly, I would not label a parent who has their child's best interests in mind and keeps tabs on things a CGM. I think it's beneficial for ALL parents to know who their child's coach is, observe practices periodically, chat with the coach to get to know who they are, ask questions from time to time. Those things are NOT the same as a parent who tries to tell the coach what to do, coaches their child at home or from the sidelines, or whatever else a CGM does. In fact, I think I'm more concerned by the parents who are 100% hands off. I used to help coach a high school team and there were numerous girls whose parents never came to practices or meets, never met me, would not have been able to pick me out of a crowd, and had no clue how I was coaching their child or what kind of example I was setting for her. That was far more troubling to me. Parents should be involved and interested in who is working with their child for hours a week, just from the role of parent. I'm not saying you need to go to every practice all the time, just that it's totally normal and reasonable for a parent to know who is working with their child, be able to approach them, or ask them questions about coaching practices periodically if needed and to do so should not get one labeled as a CGM.

 

[munchkin3]

Coachmolly- I was just being facetious.......it's hard for parents sometimes to find a comfortable line of behaving the way you describe, and overdoing it......plus there is the constant 'worry' that many parents feel to not be labeled at the CGM lead them to not be involved......
It takes some years of experience to be able be both present and invisible....