WAG Level 5 Gym Switch?

[Lucy Moore]

Almost the same thing happened to me I wasn't happy at one gym and my top choice gym had no spots but then a coach I new switched to their gym and had me try out so maybe an inside connection could help

 

[gymgal]

I know this doesn't help the op as they are long past this point but the discussion seems to have turned more general and it is something for parents/coaches to keep in mind for the future...

I think the general problem owners/coaches have with gym switches is that it seemingly comes out of nowhere - the parents wait too long (or bypass all together) to have the talk that there is something is bothering them. They keep it inside, watching and waiting for it to get better so as to not upset the apple cart but the day comes eventually when they have just had enough and they decide they need a gym switch. As bookworm says - if you are thinking of a gym switch, you are probably long overdue for one - as in, the problems that began a year ago should have been addressed a year ago and not laid to fester. By then it is too late to talk with the coaches/owner. If the discussions had been occurring all along, it may not have escalated to the point where you need a move. Or if it does warrant one, the coach/owner will have been a part of it.

However, I do not believe this is necessarily the parents' faults. This usually occurs as the result of the gym not having open lines of communication with the parents - where talks only happens when there is something wrong, or happens only at a group level. Parents don't feel comfortable having a 'bad' conversation if they haven't had any 'good' conversations. Open door policies don't work well for meetings either because it relies on the parent to make the first move, which they typically won't do if there is nothing pressing to discuss or if they are new and don't want to waste time. Having regular scheduled meetings (2-3/year) opens the lines of communication and makes it easier for the parent to go to the coach/owner when there is something wrong...

 

[l.c.o]

When my DD switched gyms a year ago, we did not tell our club. That said, she did not set a foot back in "old club" after her first real workout in "new club".

It was an odd situation, though, where DD was done with "old club" either way. Had she NOT been accepted to this specific "new club", she was likely going to quit the sport, or at least take some time off and consider quitting.

We emailed old club after her second workout day at new club, but before both the official "ok" from head coach to join new club and before making our own decision on whether it was a good fit. That ended up being a bit of a mess, but I'd really been trying to both respect their request for 30 days notice (payment) of leaving the club, and also protect my DD from new club suddenly losing interest.

Thankfully the second time DD saw former coaches they managed to hug and I said hello and it was kinda ok. That makes me happy as they were a big part of DD's life for a bit, and we have no residual hard feeling towards them.

 

[Texasmomof3]

We switched gym for my dd this summer. The new gym required full disclosure to the old gym before allowing a try out. So, I spoke to old gym HC about why dd wanted to go try out at a new gym.

The result of that conversation confirmed to me that we had to leave, whether it was to the new gym we were trying or somewhere else or even to quit gymnastics completely. The conversation began with HC telling me that he understood our concerns (revolving door of short term coaches, significant constant dead time at practice and kids coaching each other and no skills progress for dd for almost a year as a result) but that he had a plan and if we would give him the summer, it would be resolved. I thanked him for his candor and said I wasn't sure if she would actually move gyms or not, but that she did want to still try the other gym before making her decision. That is when HC got nasty, telling me that basically my dd sucks as a gymnast (even though he had never coached her directly) and that is why she had no progress in skills over the year. He then said he knew the other gym well enough to know that they wouldn't want her once they saw her workout, as she really has no future in gymnastics.

The reaction was quite a slap in the face from a gym with bible verses and posters about sportsmanship plastered all over their walls. They had never complained or raised concerns about dd for all the years they took our money.

I never spoke to HC or any of her old gym coaches again. Dd did not return to that gym after that day. She did hear from old teammates that one coach told the girls that they should not stay friends with dd as she abandoned them and is not a true friend. (Good news is new gym loved her, welcomed her, and her very first meet with new gym saw a full 2 point score improvement over where she used to score at old gym. She went from 34s-35s to 37s. And she has plenty of friends as new gym as well as the continuing loyalty of her friends from old gym.)

 

[Texasmomof3]

This usually occurs as the result of the gym not having open lines of communication with the parents - where talks only happens when there is something wrong, or happens only at a group level. Parents don't feel comfortable having a 'bad' conversation if they haven't had any 'good' conversations. Open door policies don't work well for meetings either because it relies on the parent to make the first move, which they typically won't do if there is nothing pressing to discuss or if they are new and don't want to waste time.

Yes. We saw the revolving door of coaches at the old gym, but no one from the gym ever said a word to the parents about what was going on. So, we didn't know why coaches would come and go and disappear. And it was very difficult to even speak to coaches to ask what was happening, as they never physically walked over to the parent area after practice. You couldn't speak to anyone unless you physically walked out onto the practice floor, where the coaches were always busy talking to each other or leading the next class, etc. And on the few occasions that I did that, I did not receive welcoming looks or a warm reception at all.

New gym is very different. HC and all team coaches come out to parent waiting area at the end of practice each day to say hello, talk about what is going on and simply be available. I've talked to new coaches more in the 6 months since we changed gyms than I spoke to the old coaches at the three years we were at the last gym.

 

[refugee]

This post strikes a chord with me...we moved gyms 3x for one of my girls. Two of the moves were performance-motivated. One went well, the other...rough. But we had been warned by another family that moved just before us).

OP, you really raised a big red danger flag for me with already talking to the gym owner and getting no where. If you and your daughter believe she has a future in this sport, move now. The gym and coaches will soon blame her for her problems. This was us. We really wanted to stay in the gym. An unexpected coaching change put us in a bind...it was a critical year for college recruiting but the change happened close to season and she still had one of her previous coaches. As we would soon learn, my daughter knew more about CoP requirements than the new coach. She went from being a consistent top-5 finisher to mid-pack. For the first time ever, she missed two routines in a meet (State, no less), and yes, they were the new coach's events. We too tried the coachp method...we met during season with gym management/ownership about our concerns. Predictably, gym management saw fit to defend their coach. They also conveyed our concerns to the coach in a negative manner. Our daughter went from being "the hardest worker in the gym" pre-season to "you don't work hard enough" as the reason for her poor performance (new coach's description of my daughter, as reported by my daughter). We left. Several families left after us. In her new gym the next year, her performance went back to what we'd seen before.

A few more thoughts...
Already mentioned, but I'll reiterate on the topic of Transparency/Secrecy in looking at new gyms. THERE IS NO SECRECY IN THIS SPORT so it is vital that you be circumspect in your exploration. "Leaks" happen all the time, from parents talking between gyms to gym owners & coaches talking amongst themselves. profmom has it right at post 17. Gyms have different working relationship with each other...some are cooperative, others are bitter rivals. Regarless, gym owners and coaches talk (even between bitter rival gyms). They work together in the industry. IME, many will not take a kid out of another competing gym mid-season without some communication between gym owners/management. Others will do it in a heartbeat! You've been warned.

IME, gym owners and coaches can be very egotistical about their programs, and often take offense that you think their program is not the best one for your kid. Remember, this is a business for the gym owners and a pride issue for the coaches.

Talk is cheap, says coachp. True. And I've seen that destructive parental behavior in more than one gym. IMO: Gym ownership/management/coaches could go a long way to stopping this by being up front and communicating with their customers. Yes, we get emotional about our kids (who doesn't) but we're adults. We're also your paying customers. Keep us in the dark, treat us like little kids, and we turn to each other for (incorrect) information. The result is inevitable.

 

[bookworm]

We switched gym for my dd this summer. The new gym required full disclosure to the old gym before allowing a try out. So, I spoke to old gym HC about why dd wanted to go try out at a new gym.

The result of that conversation confirmed to me that we had to leave, whether it was to the new gym we were trying or somewhere else or even to quit gymnastics completely. The conversation began with HC telling me that he understood our concerns (revolving door of short term coaches, significant constant dead time at practice and kids coaching each other and no skills progress for dd for almost a year as a result) but that he had a plan and if we would give him the summer, it would be resolved. I thanked him for his candor and said I wasn't sure if she would actually move gyms or not, but that she did want to still try the other gym before making her decision. That is when HC got nasty, telling me that basically my dd sucks as a gymnast (even though he had never coached her directly) and that is why she had no progress in skills over the year. He then said he knew the other gym well enough to know that they wouldn't want her once they saw her workout, as she really has no future in gymnastics.

The reaction was quite a slap in the face from a gym with bible verses and posters about sportsmanship plastered all over their walls. They had never complained or raised concerns about dd for all the years they took our money.

I never spoke to HC or any of her old gym coaches again. Dd did not return to that gym after that day. She did hear from old teammates that one coach told the girls that they should not stay friends with dd as she abandoned them and is not a true friend. (Good news is new gym loved her, welcomed her, and her very first meet with new gym saw a full 2 point score improvement over where she used to score at old gym. She went from 34s-35s to 37s. And she has plenty of friends as new gym as well as the continuing loyalty of her friends from old gym.)

And this is exactly what happened to us and why I advocate keeping your mouth shut with a gym move....they agree with you until you disagree with them, and then it gets ugly, and remains so....and once you've opened that door, it can never be shut again.

Another point to make is that Coachp says he's "not against a gym switch, if it's for the right reason"...uh sorry, I decide what's the "right" reason to switch....that statement just smacks me as another egotistical response like Refugee describes....

 

[CameraShy]

I have seen switches play out - one in complete transparency and another done quietly and quickly. I would take the quick and quiet one, hands down. Neither one was for reasons other than the gymnasts needing something more than the current gym could provide for them. But the transparent one ended in a long meeting where the gymnast left crying, upset, and feeling like a terrible person and a lazy gymnast (who was actually an amazing gymnast). This was from a gym that I would have never thought was capable of that. It's really hard to figure out which gym will react which way and I don't know that I, as a parent, would risk a bad outcome by being completely transparent. I wouldn't want to put my child through that.

I think as a coach it has to be hard to have a gymnast leave for many reasons. One thing that no one leaving ever intends to cause is a stir amongst the other gymnasts staying... why is so-and-so leaving? Should we be checking out other places too? Etc, etc. I'm sure there is some reassuring or damage control on the coach's part that goes along with a gymnast leaving and I'm sure no one likes to deal with that.

 

[bookworm]

I think as a coach it has to be hard to have a gymnast leave for many reasons. One thing that no one leaving ever intends to cause is a stir amongst the other gymnasts staying... why is so-and-so leaving? Should we be checking out other places too? Etc, etc. I'm sure there is some reassuring or damage control on the coach's part that goes along with a gymnast leaving and I'm sure no one likes to deal with that.

Many good points, CameraShy....we too left our original gym for the reasons you describe...the gym could not provide what my oldest needed at the time to progress, and after many a chat, I decided to move to a gym that could coach her at the level she was at...and I'm sure much of the nastiness directed at our leaving was for things you describe as fearing others would follow etc.

I had sent a blast email the day we left to all the parents explaining that, although it was a tough decision, this was what was best for our family...and I in no way encouraged others to follow....and they didn't because the original gym was working for them. We continue to be very good friends with several families still there and attend each other's meets so on a parent level, it was fine, but on a coach level, it was not.

 

[Aero]

This is always a hot topic, for sure.

I agree with @coachp about being as transparent and vocal as possible with your child's coaches. However, I think this should happen as problems arise, not way after they have been festering and when you are about to switch gyms. I also agree with some of the previous posters that as a coach, being available and approachable goes a long way towards keeping the parents happy. In my personal experience, I have seen proof of this; I always make it a point to make myself available after every practice, and my parents have no concerns about bringing up issues to me, ever. Since I am quite new to competitive coaching, I have been humbled on more than one occasion by parents. I try hard to quell my knee-jerk reactions, even if I am right, and handle the situations responsibly. As a result of this, I can honestly say I've learned to be a better coach, and my PR skills (Parent Relations ) have dramatically increased. I have had virtually no issues with my parents in the two years the team has existed, and no one has ever left or even voiced the concern to me.

It is really up to both the coach and parents. If the communication is there, and there are no huge egos present in the parent or coach, then the relationship will always be quite harmonious. Communication really is the key. If problems are brought up early as they arise, then it can be possible to predict whether or not a switch will need to be made in the future, or even how the coach would react when eventually told about a switch. For instance, if a problem is brought to the attention of the coach early, in a polite way, and the coach dismisses it outright, or does not try fixing the issue in a timely manner, than you can easily guess that a switch will probably need to be made in the future. The way the coach handles these encounters will also tell you about how they may potentially behave during a "switch conversation."
Open lines of communication will also prompt other parents to speak out about their issues and concerns. One of the ways I know I need to shape up is when multiple parents approach me on the same subject. Usually, in those situations I know it's my fault, and I'm just wrong. I've also never been confronted about my coaching, techniques, methods, or the way I run practice (thank god).

One more thing I would like to say. I simultaneously agree and disagree with @bookworm about reasons for switching being "right." There are, as a fact, reasons that are good and not good for a switch, regardless of how you feel about them as a parent. As an example, a fact that a switch needs to happen is if there is some form of abuse occurring in the gym. Another would be if there are big safety issues that are not addressed, and are ignored. Conversely, a fact that a reason to switch is bad would be that a parent is not happy with how a coach is progressing their child, even though the coach is doing what is safe for the child, like not letting them compete skills they are not ready to safely execute yet. Another scenario would be if a coach avoids certain things at practices and forbids things to be done at home during an injury, but the parent disagrees and pushes the kid against the coach's decision. If you decide that a gym switch is the right thing to do in the latter situations, then you are undeniably wrong. That is the behavior of a delusional parent, a CGP. Now, I am not at all saying you are this way bookworm, I just have to disagree with the "I'm the parent and I am always right" sentiment.

@bookworm, just to be clear, I am simply sharing my thoughts. In my two years on this forum, I have found you to be incredibly wise and experienced, and I always read your posts. I have learned a great deal from you, and others like you on this website. Thank you for being so free with your experiences!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

And this is exactly what happened to us and why I advocate keeping your mouth shut with a gym move....they agree with you until you disagree with them, and then it gets ugly, and remains so....and once you've opened that door, it can never be shut again.

Another point to make is that Coachp says he's "not against a gym switch, if it's for the right reason"...uh sorry, I decide what's the "right" reason to switch....that statement just smacks me as another egotistical response like Refugee describes....

??? what on earth are you even talking about..left field.. Yes, for the right reason, not my reason but "the" reason (thought that was pretty self explanatory). The scenarios mentioned by Aero are prime examples of people leaving for the wrong reason. I have told this story on here in the past, but here goes again....
I lost a Gymnast because of a bunch of made up drama amongst the parents and kids. The parents and kids in that group literally got so out of hand that they actually started to believe everything they were making up and somehow created illusion that the info all came from the coaches........ So fast forward a few months (season just ended), and I get a nasty goodbye email from a Dad, (who I never saw but had been pumped full of information from mom). Well,,,, honestly nothing in the email even made sense, none of it was real! I literally lost a kid who I cherished because according to Dad, we didn't care about that group and they got lesser training than the others, even though they got the same as everyone else.... That is a pretty good example of,,, not only did they leave for the wrong reason but they left for a reason that didn't even exist...... By the way, that child came in 4th AA at Level 8 regionals after coming in top two AA at 4 other meets that season. The group actually did extremely well that year by the way with a regional AA champ and State champion in it. .... All could of been avoided had they just brought it up during the several conversations I had with the mom, including a 10 min conversation with her at regionals. I would imagine that she was so upset at all the gossip she couldn't see through it and was done. Pretty sad people.

 

[bookworm]

Aoro and Coachp, if you'll notice in my post just prior to Aero's, I describe our switch after " many a chat" with the coaches about what was going on with the situation... Times they had told me " when we feel we can't coach her anymore, we'll help you find the best place going forward "...well I waited it out 3 years of promises and finally said " it's not working, I need to move her for her to get X skill, where do you you suggest?" ...and all hell broke loose! We were shown the door, accused of thinking we were better than everyone else, told she'd NEVER get X skill and that they could still coach her and that we were being ridiculous to think otherwise.... So in this scenario, I think the coaches thought that we left for the " wrong" reasons but after she got the skill in question within 2 weeks of moving, I knew that we had moved for the "right" reason.... I had talked to them until I was blue in the face, given them time to coach the skill ( or get in someone who could) and it never happened....

We were treated so awful by this coach afterwards , that is why I advise a keep your mouth shut policy going forward because in the course of our numerous chats , I never saw it coming...

 

[gymmomx2]

One more thing I would like to say. I simultaneously agree and disagree with @bookworm about reasons for switching being "right." There are, as a fact, reasons that are good and not good for a switch, regardless of how you feel about them as a parent. As an example, a fact that a switch needs to happen is if there is some form of abuse occurring in the gym. Another would be if there are big safety issues that are not addressed, and are ignored. Conversely, a fact that a reason to switch is bad would be that a parent is not happy with how a coach is progressing their child, even though the coach is doing what is safe for the child, like not letting them compete skills they are not ready to safely execute yet. Another scenario would be if a coach avoids certain things at practices and forbids things to be done at home during an injury, but the parent disagrees and pushes the kid against the coach's decision. If you decide that a gym switch is the right thing to do in the latter situations, then you are undeniably wrong. That is the behavior of a delusional parent, a CGP. Now, I am not at all saying you are this way bookworm, I just have to disagree with the "I'm the parent and I am always right" sentiment.

@bookworm, just to be clear, I am simply sharing my thoughts. In my two years on this forum, I have found you to be incredibly wise and experienced, and I always read your posts. I have learned a great deal from you, and others like you on this website. Thank you for being so free with your experiences!

You know..."not happy with how child is progressing" can be a legitimate reason for a move. We found after a gym move (unrelated to progression) that what we thought were limitations on our child's part were actually limitation on the coaches' part who didn't know how (couldn't bother???) to work with a child who needed a different kind of coaching. Turns out, my child is actually quite capable of getting some of the skills that couldn't be mastered at old gym. Turns out, my child now actually has skills that former teammates don't have yet. Turns out, I had underestimated my child because we believed the coaches at former gym were doing a good job. Had we not switched gyms, I probably would have kept on thinking that my child just was not that good at gymnastics. Old teammates were progressing fine so the problem must have been with my child, yes? In the end, what was needed was different coaching!

So yeah, I can understand why parents make gym moves because they are unhappy with how their child is progressing. It's not all black and white.

 

[LizzieLac]

Coaching philosophy...#1 reason. Coach may say child left for the wrong reason because the coach believes in his/her philosophy. But not every athlete can learn and excel under that approach to coaching. Some can. Those that can't need to find what works for them by going to another gym.

This covers things like spotting vs. little/no spotting, working out "on their own," drills vs. not enough drills, not dealing with fears in a way that helps the athlete. Those are all the right reasons to leave, but coaches may not think so because it would call into question their coaching.

 

[bookworm]

Coaching philosophy...#1 reason. Coach may say child left for the wrong reason because the coach believes in his/her philosophy. But not every athlete can learn and excel under that approach to coaching. Some can. Those that can't need to find what works for them by going to another gym.

This covers things like spotting vs. little/no spotting, working out "on their own," drills vs. not enough drills, not dealing with fears in a way that helps the athlete. Those are all the right reasons to leave, but coaches may not think so because it would call into question their coaching.

LizzieLac, thank you for totally making my point when I said in a prior post that I, as the parent, will decide if it is the "right" reason to switch...the coaching approach may work for Susie, but if it's not working for my kid, due to any of the factors you have cited and more, it's the right reason..

 

[munchkin3]

We switched a year ago too. I did not get into the details with the coach. I have much love and respect for the coaches but I knew my DD had to leave after Level 4/5.
The reason I knew is that I observed for 5 years girls do GREAT from L3 to L5, and then they all hit the wall.......combination of age, puberty and the fact that head coach had trouble with larger gymnasts......he was very good with the little ones.....
The truth hurts, and I would have NEVER told him that. I have a great amount of respect for him and left very diplomatically.
BUT my mind was made up.....
OP has a lot of unresolved issues......either make a decision to sit down and COMMUNICATE with the current gym in an adult way, or make a decision to leave.....You still need a backup plan in case the communicating ends up with leaving......
as far as favoritism.....yes its there and good teaches are better at not showing it.....
I tell my kids to make sure they DO NOT get on the naughty list, period.....

 

[gymmomx2]

Coaching philosophy...#1 reason. Coach may say child left for the wrong reason because the coach believes in his/her philosophy. But not every athlete can learn and excel under that approach to coaching. Some can. Those that can't need to find what works for them by going to another gym.

This covers things like spotting vs. little/no spotting, working out "on their own," drills vs. not enough drills, not dealing with fears in a way that helps the athlete. Those are all the right reasons to leave, but coaches may not think so because it would call into question their coaching.

THIS x1000!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Aoro and Coachp, if you'll notice in my post just prior to Aero's, I describe our switch after " many a chat" with the coaches about what was going on with the situation... Times they had told me " when we feel we can't coach her anymore, we'll help you find the best place going forward "...well I waited it out 3 years of promises and finally said " it's not working, I need to move her for her to get X skill, where do you you suggest?" ...and all hell broke loose! We were shown the door, accused of thinking we were better than everyone else, told she'd NEVER get X skill and that they could still coach her and that we were being ridiculous to think otherwise.... So in this scenario, I think the coaches thought that we left for the " wrong" reasons but after she got the skill in question within 2 weeks of moving, I knew that we had moved for the "right" reason.... I had talked to them until I was blue in the face, given them time to coach the skill ( or get in someone who could) and it never happened....

We were treated so awful by this coach afterwards , that is why I advise a keep your mouth shut policy going forward because in the course of our numerous chats , I never saw it coming...

You need to go back and read the thread.... My comment "Completely understand your opinion, but see zero harm in communication. I am not objecting to the gym switch so long as it's for the correct reason." was in response to this post by you, "Coachp this is a rather harsh statement for someone who has only walked in the coach's shoes, and not the parents. No one wants their kid to lie but if you've had an experience with being upfront, trying to resolve an issue and then being shown the door and treaTed like dirt afterwards....I'm not feeling the love you think is going to come from this scenario....At the end of the day , you are in a business as a coach/gym owner and I am in the business of doing what's best for my kid, period." At no time in your post or the previous post from you did you give any information about why you left your gym, so I fail to see how you related my comment directly towards you.... Not to mention I have zero desire to debate with anyone who has already left for whatever reason.

 

[flowerchild]

The endless debate!

And Why do parents and coaches get so dramatically on opposite sides in this sport?

It constantly amazes me. I have other children in different sports, some training as many hours a week
As my gymmie, and the relationship between parents and coaches isn't nearly as contentious.

I feel like telling the gymnastics coaches, " you may be with my kid many hours a week, and may feel like you
Know her, but I gave birth to her, and when she quits / retires gymnastics, which she will, eventually, you won't be in her
Life anymore. So can you just stop trying to shut me out? You'd be better off making this relationship a threesome!"

 

[ascarter1]

This whole thread reminds me of how blessed I am with the fantastic coaches at our gym! #feelingblessed