WAG Level 6 bars, once and for all

[cbifoja]

Oh, I guess I just assumed they had to cast to get their legs up to squat on. Is that not considered a cast???? I mean there is no pause, it's a continuous movement....kip then legs go up and under the body to squat on.

Not a true cast????

 

[cbifoja]

Can they just go from kip straight to squat on? How does that work - do they use the momentum coming back up to front support to push them all the way up into the squat on? I need to look at DD's routine to see exactly what she's doing there.

I guess I considered that momentum that takes their legs up behind them to be a cast, but now QuadQueen has me thinking that maybe I'm not using the right terminology. That would sure explain why she doesn't get the amplitude in that "cast" as she does in her "real" casts.

 

[Quadqueen]

yes, just go right to squat on without a cast between the kip and squat on.

 

[Quadqueen]

I guess I considered that momentum that takes their legs up behind them to be a cast, but now QuadQueen has me thinking that maybe I'm not using the right terminology. That would sure explain why she doesn't get the amplitude in that "cast" as she does in her "real" casts.

it doesn't sound like your DD is casting. Obviously, they wouldn't cast to handstand and then put their legs on the bar for a regular old squat on .

 

[htimcj]

'Since new 6 is considered optionals it DOES get deductions for not to verticle.'

I think I would check on that. I believe that at level 6, the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of horizontal', and at level 7 the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of 45 degrees from vertical.'

You are right that the SPECIAL REQUIREMENT for new 6 is one cast to horizontal BUT
"a. applicable deductions for insufficient amplitude will be applied, according to the basic casting criteria.
b. If all casts are below horizontal, deduct ).5 for missing the Special Requirement, PLUS 0.30 for insufficient amplitude of each cast."
page 77 of the JO code of points.

The same holds true for L7 but the SR is one cast to 45.

DD just went through this at her first L7 meet. it was a judge's cup where the girls are given written feed back about each routine. It was a rough bars day. No cast to 45- 0.5 gone, she has three casts in the routine (plus an extra ) 0.9 gone for insufficient amplitude and to round it off 0.3 for the extra swing! For a wonderful 7.3 . This was all on the card.

 

[htimcj]

it doesn't sound like your DD is casting. Obviously, they wouldn't cast to handstand and then put their legs on the bar for a regular old squat on .

That is the ONLY time you don't have to cast to handstand, when you go to a squat on

H.1.g.- The insufficient amplitude of cast deduction is NOT applied to casts prior to a squat/stoop/straddle onto the low bar (with or without a backward sole circle), jump to grasp the high bar. However, there must be a backward swing of the legs before placing the feet on the bar.

 

[beamer]

This is the routine: kip, cast, clear hip, kip, pike-on, transition to high bar, uprise, clear hip, kip, cast, layout flyaway.

So there's a lot going on there...many junctures for deduction. But it seems like the routine has a start value (because of lack of decent casts) of 9.5, then the deductions start. There have been two meets: 7.8 and 8.15 respectively.

 

[htimcj]

That is very similar to my DD routine last weekend same score basically too and the main culprit was total lack of height to the casts. 0.5 for missing the SR then 0.9 for insufficient amplitude and another 0.3 for an extra cast before the flyaway. Bet you can guess what she has been working on this week

 

[raenndrops]

DD's routine is currently as follows:

Glide kip, cast to horizontal (or just above), free hip, kip, cast, squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast to horizontal (or just above), back hip circle, underswing dismount (until her flyaway gets better).

Am I right that there is no B value skill in there unless one cast is almost to handstand (within 20 degrees)? And each one of the casts is getting amplitude deductions? How do I cut down on the casts until they get closer to horizontal - she really needs one before each of those skills I listed, doesn't she? How do you minimize casts in a routine?

Her free hip is a B skill.
Can she do a long hang pullover? If so, she could do that instead of the high bar kip-cast... and could do it straight into the back hip circle if she has enough momentum... it would save at least the one cast deduction.

 

[raenndrops]

This is the routine: kip, cast, clear hip, kip, pike-on, transition to high bar, uprise, clear hip, kip, cast, layout flyaway.

So there's a lot going on there...many junctures for deduction. But it seems like the routine has a start value (because of lack of decent casts) of 9.5, then the deductions start. There have been two meets: 7.8 and 8.15 respectively.

10 skills... 10 opportunities for deductions.... and 3 Bs in the routine - might be a bit of overkill for a L6 routine.

 

[gymdog]

I guess I considered that momentum that takes their legs up behind them to be a cast, but now QuadQueen has me thinking that maybe I'm not using the right terminology. That would sure explain why she doesn't get the amplitude in that "cast" as she does in her "real" casts.

There's no deduction for kip squat on. She would have to baby cast out of the kip, bring her hips back to the bar, then kick them back into the squat on in order to have a cast there. The reason we usually say cast squat on is in the old and current level 4 routines they do a cast, COME BACK TO THE BAR, and then do a squat on. Two separate elements. If you did kip squat on like an optional does in current level 4, you'd be missing an element.

The skill she is doing out of her kip is a squat on and not a cast most likely.

 

[beamer]

I agree about overkill. I think the aim is to have the girls ready, bars-wise, for level 7.

Everybody on the team qualified for states at the last meet, so, since there is no need for a "watering down" of the bar routine for qualification, I think this will be the routine for the rest of the competition year (through April).

 

[cbifoja]

I watched at practice tonight and everyone is right. It isn't an actual cast in between the kip and the squat on. I thought it was supposed to be and that her lack of amplitude on this "cast" would be hurting her score.

 

[chalkbowl]

It is UP TO .3 for insufficient amplitude (might be only .25, lol)... plus the deductions for body shaping, leg separations, etc.

I made my statement based on the fact that the athlete is meeting the requirement of exactly a cast to horizontal, which would be an EXACT .3 deduction. Sorry that was not clear in the post!

 

[Bajanswife]

I think that's what DD does too. In which case she only has 2 casts in her routine, not 3. She's not competing again until late April, so hopefully she'll hit close to handstand by then, or else we can figure out something else to do on the high bar to replace her second cast, so that we can minimize her amplitude deductions.

 

[Natasha]

I think L6 is going to be one of those levels where the coach can choose to have the gymnast do the minimum to score well, or the coach can choose to have the gymnast do more to get ready for L7 and possibly not score as well....kind of the same situation as L8 this year with C skills...those gymnasts may get more execution deductions, but will be more prepared for L9.

 

[pt coach]

I was at a level 6 meet last night. One 9 on bars for the entire session and one 8.9. We had a kid win an age group with an 8.65. One judge suggested a routine of kip squat on kip cast clear hip right to flyaway as the way to go with this level - it is short an element but only has one cast. We aren't going to do this as we want to build strong bars for level 7 and above. So instead we are spending much time on cast handstands...

The rest of the events score so much higher...winning scores on floor ranged from 9.3 - 9.525. Same for beam and vault.

 

[LizzieLac]

Yup, our gym is looking for giants as well for level 6. Will make transition to 7 much smoother.

 

[gymmutti]

This discussion has me great flu that my DD can hit close to CHS almost every time. Her clear hip is just barely over horizontal, but there is only one of those in her routine (thank goodness). I will be interested to see how she scores at her first meet. No giants yet but since she does her fly away out of a handstand, I hope it won't be a difficult transition for L7.

 

[gracyomalley]

After this discussion I now understand why DD coach decided not to compete Level 6....and I'm sure glad we got to Level 7 last year - sounds like you "can " get away with an easier routine at 6 than 7, but not without huge deductions....and its still "all in the cast handstands!".....conditioning, conditioning, conditioning.....!