WAG Level 6 bars, once and for all

[beamer]

DD has had two L6 meets this year and has been struggling on bars, which is usually her best event.

It seems like every time a question about bars at this new level comes up, there are differing opinions on what the cast requirements are.

Are they the same as old L6 (above horizontal) or are there deductions for anything less than horizontal? Is there a different start value for a routine that has no casts to vertical?

Based on what I have seen at these two meets, it appears DD is taking significant hits for her lack of big casts (she is probably casting to "just barely" above horizontal). I think there are two, maybe three, casts in the routine.

 

[Natasha]

I don't know how to link it, but USAG has the requirements chart posted on their site for the optional levels as well as a chart that shows the deductions for cast angles. The special requirement for .5 is to cast to Horizontal, so as long as all the other SR are met a cast at or above horizontal will start from a 10. However, every cast in the routine that does not hit handstand is subject to cast angle deductions which I believe is up to .3 for each cast if I am remembering correctly. This deduction is the same for all optional levels.

 

[Quadqueen]

I don't know how to link it, but USAG has the requirements chart posted on their site for the optional levels as well as a chart that shows the deductions for cast angles. The special requirement for .5 is to cast to Horizontal, so as long as all the other SR are met a cast at or above horizontal will start from a 10. However, every cast in the routine that does not hit handstand is subject to cast angle deductions which I believe is up to .3 for each cast if I am remembering correctly. This deduction is the same for all optional levels.

I know this topic has come up before, and it's very confusing, but I'm pretty sure a L6 bar routine would not be getting a .3 deduction for every cast that does not hit handstand...?? I thought when the new levels came out, the requirements for new L6 as far as cast angles were easier than they were for old L6.

 

[LizzieLac]

I know this topic has come up before, and it's very confusing, but I'm pretty sure a L6 bar routine would not be getting a .3 deduction for every cast that does not hit handstand...?? I thought when the new levels came out, the requirements for new L6 as far as cast angles were easier than they were for old L6.

I think the discussion her had on CB was that they made the cast angle requirements for new 5 easier than old 6. Not sure where the new 6 ended up.

 

[Quadqueen]

oh, you're right....^^I'm going to try to find the recent thread that addressed this.

edit: well, that thread only addressed L7 bars. sorry!

 

[htimcj]

Since new 6 is considered optionals it DOES get deductions for not to verticle. It has a special requirement of 1 cast at horizontal or the routine automatically starts at a 9.5 if NONE of of the casts reach horizontal. If at least one does then the start value goes back to 10. Then there are deductions for cast angle. If it is barely above horizontal then she'll lose 0.3 for every single cast at that height. If she gets it to between 45-30 degrees it is up to 0.2 off, from 30-20 up to 0.1 off and from 10-0 degrees no deductions.

So as you can see that while the sinlge cast requirement is easier you still have to reach as close to verticle as you can to avoid HUGE deductions for every single cast you do. So if you have three casts and they are all at horizontal then there goes 0.9 right there. Then the judges can take of for form issues as well. Was it arched, were the feet apart ect can all lead to 0.1-0.2 deductions as well all on the same skill.

It is very painful to see the deductions add up .

 

[Gymsanity]

DD has had two L6 meets this year and has been struggling on bars, which is usually her best event.

It seems like every time a question about bars at this new level comes up, there are differing opinions on what the cast requirements are.

Are they the same as old L6 (above horizontal) or are there deductions for anything less than horizontal? Is there a different start value for a routine that has no casts to vertical?

Based on what I have seen at these two meets, it appears DD is taking significant hits for her lack of big casts (she is probably casting to "just barely" above horizontal). I think there are two, maybe three, casts in the routine.

Seems to be quite a bit of confusion here, let's see if I can help clear it up, or maybe just muddy the waters further! First, levels 1 through 8 have the same start value of 10.0 (if all Special Requirements -SR- are met) and are not eligible for bonus. The SR for level 6 bars are 1. One cast to a minimum of horizontal. 2. Minimum of one bar change. 3. One element from Groups 3, 6, or 7. 4. Dismount, minimum of an 'A'. You fulfill those SR's, and you are in the running.
OK, so lets break this down now. 1. if they don't have at least one cast to a minimum of horizontal, you will loose a flat .50 for not meeting that SR and up to .30 per cast for insufficient amplitude (will check to see if that is a flat .30 deduction, but I don't think so). 2. you must also perform Value Parts -VP- on both the low and high bar to fulfill this requirement, or again the .50 deduction comes into play. 3. Basically, without getting weird, that would be a clear hip (back hip circle if you were struggling), Stalder, or toe on. 4. Couldn't be easier, you don't even need a fly away! Level 4 dismount would even work. Hope this will shed a little light on the subject.

 

[Quadqueen]

Yes, but what is "insufficient amplitude" at this level? One cast needs to be at least horizontal. What about the others?

 

[Gymsanity]

'Since new 6 is considered optionals it DOES get deductions for not to verticle.'

I think I would check on that. I believe that at level 6, the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of horizontal', and at level 7 the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of 45 degrees from vertical.'

 

[raenndrops]

Yes, but what is "insufficient amplitude" at this level? One cast needs to be at least horizontal. What about the others?

I am not positive but insufficient amplitude would definitely mean not meeting the minimum requirement... and as far as the other casts, if they are not high enough, I would see if there is a way to restructure the routine to leave them out. As other posters have said, there can be deductions on each cast. At level 6... get on... do the required skills to the best of your ability... and get off. Extra skills = Extra chances for deductions!

 

[wandrewsjr]

'Since new 6 is considered optionals it DOES get deductions for not to verticle.'

I think I would check on that. I believe that at level 6, the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of horizontal', and at level 7 the SR is 'one cast to a minimum of 45 degrees from vertical.'

Yes, but execution deductions are separate from the special requirements. SR is horizontal for level 6, 45 degrees for level 7, but ALL optional casts are judged on amplitude execution based on the following chart:

0-10 degrees from vertical - B value part awarded - NO amplitude deduction
11-20 degrees from vertical - B value part awarded - 0.05 amplitude deduction
21-30 degrees from vertical - No value part awarded - 0.10 amplitude deduction
31-45 degrees from vertical - No value part awarded - 0.15-0.20 amplitude deduction
46 from vertical and below - No value part awarded - 0.25-0.30 amplitude deductions(max 0.30 for horizontal and below)

 

[chalkbowl]

Yes, but execution deductions are separate from the special requirements. SR is horizontal for level 6, 45 degrees for level 7, but ALL optional casts are judged on amplitude execution based on the following chart:

0-10 degrees from vertical - B value part awarded - NO amplitude deduction
11-20 degrees from vertical - B value part awarded - 0.05 amplitude deduction
21-30 degrees from vertical - No value part awarded - 0.10 amplitude deduction
31-45 degrees from vertical - No value part awarded - 0.15-0.20 amplitude deduction
46 from vertical and below - No value part awarded - 0.25-0.30 amplitude deductions(max 0.30 for horizontal and below)

^ This is correct. It does not matter that the special requirement for level 6 is only a cast to horizontal...even an athlete meets the special requirement they are still receiving a .3 deduction for insufficient amplitude.

 

[raenndrops]

^ This is correct. It does not matter that the special requirement for level 6 is only a cast to horizontal...even an athlete meets the special requirement they are still receiving a .3 deduction for insufficient amplitude.

It is UP TO .3 for insufficient amplitude (might be only .25, lol)... plus the deductions for body shaping, leg separations, etc.

 

[Bajanswife]

DD's routine is currently as follows:

Glide kip, cast to horizontal (or just above), free hip, kip, cast, squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast to horizontal (or just above), back hip circle, underswing dismount (until her flyaway gets better).

Am I right that there is no B value skill in there unless one cast is almost to handstand (within 20 degrees)? And each one of the casts is getting amplitude deductions? How do I cut down on the casts until they get closer to horizontal - she really needs one before each of those skills I listed, doesn't she? How do you minimize casts in a routine?

 

[Gymmomto2]

My DD is a L6 & had her 1st meet this past weekend. The judge we had come in 2 wks before our meet said its .3 off PER cast if it's not between horizontal & vertical. Her 8.3 reflected that. She also lost another .3 for her clear hip not shooting higher.

 

[beamer]

Holy frijole! How in the world are these judges eyeballing these angles and taking deductions without protractors??

I am still confused. When DD gets home from school I will ask her to tell me the elements in the routine. But it seems like, whatever she is doing, the SV is 9.5 and I think it is because of the casts and not any missing SRs or other elements. The basic routine actually has extra elements that are leading to further deductions (according to DD), like an uprise after the transition to high bar.

 

[cbifoja]

Mine is getting dinged on that cast before her squat on.

Routine is: kip cast to HS (so no angle deduct), clear hip, kip, cast (major angle deduct), squat on, kip, cast to HS (sometimes doesn't quite hit verti so not sure if there is a deduction for that or not but she is very close to verti), giant, laid out flyaway.

Her teammate has a watered down routine but hits every single cast to handstand and doesn't get tenthed to death and she scores mid-9s. I talked to DD's coach about taking that same approach with my DD, but everyone had such a fit that I dropped it.

I agree with the get on get off philosophy but for some reason, it isn't being applied in my DD's case.

 

[Quadqueen]

Mine is getting dinged on that cast before her squat on.

Routine is: kip cast to HS (so no angle deduct), clear hip, kip, cast (major angle deduct), squat on, kip, cast to HS (sometimes doesn't quite hit verti so not sure if there is a deduction for that or not but she is very close to verti), giant, laid out flyaway.

Her teammate has a watered down routine but hits every single cast to handstand and doesn't get tenthed to death and she scores mid-9s. I talked to DD's coach about taking that same approach with my DD, but everyone had such a fit that I dropped it.

I agree with the get on get off philosophy but for some reason, it isn't being applied in my DD's case.

why is she casting between the low bar kip and squat on?

 

[Bajanswife]

why is she casting between the low bar kip and squat on?

Can they just go from kip straight to squat on? How does that work - do they use the momentum coming back up to front support to push them all the way up into the squat on? I need to look at DD's routine to see exactly what she's doing there.

 

[LizzieLac]

Can they just go from kip straight to squat on? How does that work - do they use the momentum coming back up to front support to push them all the way up into the squat on? I need to look at DD's routine to see exactly what she's doing there.

The current level 5 routine, which I believe is exactly like the old 6, has them kip right to squat on, so it isn't anything new.