WAG Mobility scores raised for 2017

[amiandjim]

This makes sense. Level 4 skills are so foundational and the 31 never made since to me. You should have at least an 8 on each event to move forward in those other levels. I'm curious if this means that 6 cannot be skipped anymore.

It definitely doesn't mean 6 can't be skipped. If you look it gives a level 5 mobility score for 5-6 OR 5-7. It just means if you choose to compete 6, you must score the minimum to then compete 7.

 

[bookworm]

@bookworm your gymnasts were going through level 4-5 at least a decade ago, yes? Because I've noticed average scores in compulsories rising in those levels from 10 years ago to now. I was looking at some current Level 10s and college gymnasts' scores on mymeetscores and I noticed that there are many who didn't have 'huge' compulsory scores who did very well in optionals.
But now, it is uncommon (from what I've been able to piece together looking at mymeetscores) to see gymnasts who scored in the low 30s in compulsories to score well in optionals as they move up. A 32 or 33 or 34 from a decade ago seems to indicate how harshly judges scored execution and skills, rather than if the gymnast had a good foundation to continue.

I would say at least that because her first JOs ( level 10) was 2006 ...and I too have noticed huge compulsory scores that you just didn't see back then(I don't think mymeetscores goes back that far so I'm relying on my memory)..... I remember my youngest won the Parkettes level 4 meet a few years after and she was scoring 36s,and that was considered a big score, but we were in the better gym then so I figured that was why.

 

[amiandjim]

I will say scores now are HUGE compared to when I competed...WAY back in the day when there were classes and not levels. Admittedly, I grew up in Arkansas which isn't super competitive, but I remember the year we won Class 3 state meet and one of my teammates scored a 9.0 on beam. It was a very big deal and no one had ever seen a 9 before. I remember placing 3rd or 4th with scores in the 7s.

 

[KSLaura]

This will have a big impact on xcel kids scoring out of Compulsories. A 34 is pretty hard to get even with clean skills if kids aren't spending quite a bit of time on those routines. Maybe that is the intent... How do I find out exactly who this affect for 2017? We have quite a few xcel kiddos impacted by this.

 

[Gymmommy71]

It definitely doesn't mean 6 can't be skipped. If you look it gives a level 5 mobility score for 5-6 OR 5-7. It just means if you choose to compete 6, you must score the minimum to then compete 7.

I guess that's good that you need a minimum score to move to 7 if you chose to do 6. Makes 6 not seem as meaningless that way. Might be nice if they made the 5 score out to go to 7 a point higher than it is for 6 too - thoughts?

 

[Sasha]

This will have a big impact on xcel kids scoring out of Compulsories. A 34 is pretty hard to get even with clean skills if kids aren't spending quite a bit of time on those routines. Maybe that is the intent... How do I find out exactly who this affect for 2017? We have quite a few xcel kiddos impacted by this.

This is a curiosity question not a criticism, KSLaura... What are the Xcel athletes you mention trying to accomplish? To go from Xcel Gold/Plat straight to L6/7? Is the reasoning to avoid JO compulsories because they are older? Is this the standard path at your gym (to replace compulsories with Xcel)? Or a less common path that a few older, talented athletes decided after trying Xcel then wanting more hours/challenge?

I am wondering because if it is standard to circumvent Compulsories, maybe this change is actual meant, in part, to 'crack down' on 'getting out of Compulsories' by using Xcel? I know there has been a lot of criticism of gyms using that method. I don't personally have a horse in that race, but I am simply curious about the strategies gyms use, and how different policies may be intended to impact them, or unintentionally impact them.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

This is a curiosity question not a criticism, KSLaura... What are the Xcel athletes you mention trying to accomplish? To go from Xcel Gold/Plat straight to L6/7? Is the reasoning to avoid JO compulsories because they are older? Is this the standard path at your gym (to replace compulsories with Xcel)? Or a less common path that a few older, talented athletes decided after trying Xcel then wanting more hours/challenge?

I am wondering because if it is standard to circumvent Compulsories, maybe this change is actual meant, in part, to 'crack down' on 'getting out of Compulsories' by using Xcel? I know there has been a lot of criticism of gyms using that method. I don't personally have a horse in that race, but I am simply curious about the strategies gyms use, and how different policies may be intended to impact them, or unintentionally impact them.

Sorry, I'm not the one you were responding too but I have some experience with this. The gym that we just left used Xcel to bypass compulsories with score out meets along the way. It's actually very common in our region. As a matter of fact while I'm not positive, it seems that in our state, you see more gyms doing this now than actually competing compulsories. This is the path my dd took. She did 2 years of bronze, one year of silver, and then did L6 (scoring out of 4 and 5 along the way.) I do feel that she was less prepared them a kid who had been through compulsories and she didn't get a 34 at either of her score out meets. However while L6 was a struggle at first (especially on bars) she ended the season in the 35's. We moved to a gym that has more optionals and she will compete L6 again with some upgrades. Xcel might not be the ideal path, but my dd is a kid who might have burned out into compulsories. The kip took a very, very long time to come for her. She could have potentially had to do 3 seasons of L3 if she had been in compulsories. Thank god once she got it, it was consistent and clean pretty fast!

It seems to me that this might be a way for them to crack down on that. They've already tried to crack down on compulsory kids trying to compete in Xcel lower levels after compulsory season with the new mobility chart, that requires L3's to compete gold instead of silver, etc (although exceptions can be made). But I think in order for them to really crack down on using Xcel to bypass compulsories, they will have to crack down on score out meets. When a gym brings a judge in to score out their team, they are usually extremely generous. I wouldn't be surprised if a whole team of kids just "happened" to still be able to get 34's at a score out meet even if they wouldn't have gotten that score anywhere else.

 

[Sasha]

Sorry, I'm not the one you were responding too but I have some experience with this. The gym that we just left used Xcel to bypass compulsories with score out meets along the way. It's actually very common in our region. As a matter of fact while I'm not positive, it seems that in our state, you see more gyms doing this now than actually competing compulsories. This is the path my dd took. She did 2 years of bronze, one year of silver, and then did L6 (scoring out of 4 and 5 along the way.) I do feel that she was less prepared them a kid who had been through compulsories and she didn't get a 34 at either of her score out meets. However while L6 was a struggle at first (especially on bars) she ended the season in the 35's. We moved to a gym that has more optionals and she will compete L6 again with some upgrades. Xcel might not be the ideal path, but my dd is a kid who might have burned out into compulsories. The kip took a very, very long time to come for her. She could have potentially had to do 3 seasons of L3 if she had been in compulsories. Thank god once she got it, it was consistent and clean pretty fast!

It seems to me that this might be a way for them to crack down on that. They've already tried to crack down on compulsory kids trying to compete in Xcel lower levels after compulsory season with the new mobility chart, that requires L3's to compete gold instead of silver, etc (although exceptions can be made). But I think in order for them to really crack down on using Xcel to bypass compulsories, they will have to crack down on score out meets. When a gym brings a judge in to score out their team, they are usually extremely generous. I wouldn't be surprised if a whole team of kids just "happened" to still be able to get 34's at a score out meet even if they wouldn't have gotten that score anywhere else.

Interesting perspective about your DD and the motivation to avoid early burnout, thank you for sharing! You raise another interesting question about judging, too... No doubt some of these in-house score-out meets are 'generous' - I'm wondering, though, if that would impact a judge's reputation at all if done routinely? Scoring a kid at 34 who might get a 33 at most meets is one thing, but bumping a kid who should really get a 31-32 up to 34 could potentially start to look shady to other judges/coaches/gyms perhaps?

Just another aspect to this whole picture that I wonder about...

 

[Gymmommy71]

I think if a kid is trying to go from XCel and enter into JO at any of the optional levels, they really shouldn't have a problem getting a 34 in L4. I mean the bar routine is essentially 2 kips and a squat on? How can you possibly be ready for optionals if you can't do L4 skills good enough to get a 34 - a 34 isn't the same as a 36 - you can have a few technical issues and maybe even a fall on beam and still get that when you have all the skills.

And if you can't get a 34 w/ L4 skills, how are you gonna get the L5 score - L5 scoring is much harder and the skills are a direct progression on L4.

 

[raenndrops]

This makes sense. Level 4 skills are so foundational and the 31 never made since to me. You should have at least an 8 on each event to move forward in those other levels. I'm curious if this means that 6 cannot be skipped anymore.

It can still be skipped because mobility from L5 is to L6 OR L7.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

Interesting perspective about your DD and the motivation to avoid early burnout, thank you for sharing! You raise another interesting question about judging, too... No doubt some of these in-house score-out meets are 'generous' - I'm wondering, though, if that would impact a judge's reputation at all if done routinely? Scoring a kid at 34 who might get a 33 at most meets is one thing, but bumping a kid who should really get a 31-32 up to 34 could potentially start to look shady to other judges/coaches/gyms perhaps?

Just another aspect to this whole picture that I wonder about...

Very true! I will say the one that did dd's score out meets has a reputation all around for being generous, even at regular meets. DD loves to see her judging. LOL!

 

[Sasha]

I think if a kid is trying to go from XCel and enter into JO at any of the optional levels, they really shouldn't have a problem getting a 34 in L4. I mean the bar routine is essentially 2 kips and a squat on? How can you possibly be ready for optionals if you can't do L4 skills good enough to get a 34 - a 34 isn't the same as a 36 - you can have a few technical issues and maybe even a fall on beam and still get that when you have all the skills.

And if you can't get a 34 w/ L4 skills, how are you gonna get the L5 score - L5 scoring is much harder and the skills are a direct progression on L4.

I admit this is my initial reaction as well. I am curious to hear from people who have gone through Xcel into Optionals path who may find it less reasonable, and the reasons why.

She did 2 years of bronze, one year of silver, and then did L6 (scoring out of 4 and 5 along the way.) I do feel that she was less prepared them a kid who had been through compulsories and she didn't get a 34 at either of her score out meets. However while L6 was a struggle at first (especially on bars) she ended the season in the 35's.

I'm curious, cadybearsmommy, what was the motivation to jump into L6 rather than doing a year of L4 or L5? Was it age? Your DD is now doing a second year of L6, which sounds appropriate. What would have been the issue with starting with L4 or L5 last year, rather than jumping into L6? Again, not a criticism, just curious about the thinking.

 

[raenndrops]

My oldest never scored higher than a 32.4 in level 4-5 , albeit she was in a crappy gym...we moved her to a better one and she was fast tracked through to level 8 and had a great year at 8 ( she was 8 yo) , she did 9 the next year and level 10 the next .....I think a lot depends on the coaching to see if similar low scoring girls placed with better coaching actually scored better....she did, and the rest is history.

This year, we only had 1 L4 that scored 34+ and 4 that scored 33+ … so glad the changes don't go into effect until Aug 1 (so coaches can use last year's mobility scores to move all 5 up to L5).

 

[Sasha]

This year, we only had 1 L4 that scored 34+ and 4 that scored 33+ … so glad the changes don't go into effect until Aug 1 (so coaches can use last year's mobility scores to move all 5 up to L5).

Curious, what is the reason for the "low" scores for this group? I think you are in a Y - is that lower hours? Is in philosophical, as in there simply less focus on compulsory routines/scores in pursuit of moving as quickly as possible into higher skills and levels? Are you in a very tough scoring area?

 

[raenndrops]

I would say at least that because her first JOs ( level 10) was 2006 ...and I too have noticed huge compulsory scores that you just didn't see back then(I don't think mymeetscores goes back that far so I'm relying on my memory)..... I remember my youngest won the Parkettes level 4 meet a few years after and she was scoring 36s,and that was considered a big score, but we were in the better gym then so I figured that was why.

The Vanessa Atler Interview may explain some of the increase in scores - more hours at a younger age than back then.

 

[cadybearsmommy]

I admit this is my initial reaction as well. I am curious to hear from people who have gone through Xcel into Optionals path who may find it less reasonable, and the reasons why.



I'm curious, cadybearsmommy, what was the motivation to jump into L6 rather than doing a year of L4 or L5? Was it age? Your DD is now doing a second year of L6, which sounds appropriate. What would have been the issue with starting with L4 or L5 last year, rather than jumping into L6? Again, not a criticism, just curious about the thinking.

No offense taken, it simply wasn't an option at that gym. She likely would have done much better as an L4 (not L5 b/c she had a mental block on her flyaway and competed an under swing, luckily she's got it back since moving to the new gym). But they didn't offer compulsories at all. Xcel and optionals, that was it. It wasn't really her age she just turned 11 in November.

 

[amiandjim]

We have a very well known, successful gym in our area that has told parents (we have friends who tried out there before coming to our gym) they push the girls through compulsories as quickly as possible. If I look back at state, they had multiple level 4s who didn't score 34, but their optional teams are super successful. So, I wonder if their focus will change a bit with the new scores.

 

[raenndrops]

Curious, what is the reason for the "low" scores for this group? I think you are in a Y - is that lower hours? Is in philosophical, as in there simply less focus on compulsory routines/scores in pursuit of moving as quickly as possible into higher skills and levels? Are you in a very tough scoring area?

We practice 7.5 hours a week (3 days x 2.5 hours) for all levels L3-L8/9 and Xcel Gold - Platinum. We do not rush girls through compulsories… in fact, we are intentionally keeping a young girl at L4 for another year to give her a chance to mature and score better.
We are judged by the same standards (and the same judges) as club teams even though we are a YMCA and only compete against other YMCAs.
Considering we have Top 5 AA finishers and have had several girls place 1st-3rd on Bars and Vault and half the girls have placed in the top 4 on beam and floor, it may be tough scoring… but I don't know for sure. We have been nit-picking routines of those headed to Y Nationals to get them those precious extra tenths, but we have done that all season with all the girls. It is a matter of being able to implement the corrections in the heat of competition.

 

[3rd_time_around]

Why is there a mobility score for 6-7 if 6 isn't required?

That just means that to move from 5 to either 6 or 7, you need to score a 32.00.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I like the higher score for mobility from 4 to 5. This will help, I hope, in making sure girls can safely compete at the higher levels by having their foundational skills mastered or close to mastered. It will also curb the rush through levels 4-5 to get to optionals before the gymnast is actually ready to be there. It is very nerve-racking to watch girls compete skills in optionals that they are not ready for, or that they just should not be doing.