WAG Mom getting upset at L3 workout schedule - with L2's!

[TxGymMom1]

I would really like input from other parents as well as coaches!
My 7-year old DD and another 8 y/o girl were moved to the level 3 (from 2) mid-summer
after scoring 36's at our in house JO. The girls were thrilled - and have both performed
VERY well this season - 35. - 37.5 -- my issue however is with our practice schedule. The two new girls
are only allowed to work out with the rest of the L3 team TWO practices per week -- the other
TWO practices each week they work out with the level 2 team. There is a HUGE difference in the
quality of practice as well as skills the girls are working on. It upsets ME as well as my daughter
to see the rest of her "team" working on more difficult skills - while the two youngest members
are working on "baby stuff." Our girls ARE younger -- which is why the coach said he did it that
way --(and the ratio - the other L3's are working out those same two days with L4's) however they still score higher than some of the older girls. The older girls on our team also work out two hours more per week than we do. My DD tells people she must be a L2.5!

Parents - would this bother you?
Coaches - Is this normal? Would you do this?

 

[wallinbl]

If you think of her as a level 2 training and competing 3, you'd probably appreciate the arrangement more. If you think of her as a 3 "stuck" in the 2 practice sometimes, you won't like it. She may not be ready for the stuff they're doing on the other two days, and it sounds like they're training up a level on those days.

 

[profmom]

I'm not quite sure I understand your post. Your DD was a L2 and competed L2 earlier this year and has now been moved up to L3? And your issue is that as a new L3, she's not on the same practice schedule and in the same group as the other L3s but only does some practices with them?

That sounds a bit like how our boys' team runs except the boys' team is even more fluid. There are 2-3 boys who sometimes work out in the L6 group and sometimes with the optionals when the two practice sessions overlap but work out with the L6s when they don't. It's fine -- that way the boys who are kind of in between are getting the advantage of working out with the higher level guys but are still getting the fundamentals they need.

If it works fine for 10-11 year old boys who are working out 16-20 hours a week and hoping to be optionals next year, I don't see why it wouldn't work for your daughter and the other girl as they transition from L2 to L3. As long as she's working hard and focusing in both groups, it's good for her. The one risk is that she picks up the sense that she's somehow above the training being offered when she's with the L2s and uses it as an excuse to get sloppy, which will slow down her overall progression.

 

[curlymop]

I don't know the exact ages of all of the girls, but it could be that the coaches feel the groups work better divided up into age groups, even if some of the older girls are not scoring as high as some of the younger girls. Maybe it works well to have the younger girls practicing with just the L3s, but when it's combined with the L4 group it wouldn't be a good fit.

I know boys teams tend to be different, but I see this happening frequently with my son's team. The whole team practices all at the same time, and they divide them into groups during the practice. Sometimes they will divide it strictly by levels, but sometimes it makes more sense to divide by ages. So my 6yo L5 will be grouped with the L4s and younger L5s, while the older L5s will stay with the L6-8s. A couple of the older L5s started later and are behind my son in skills, but their maturity and attention span are higher, making it easier to stay with the other older guys (and making it frustrating to practice with all of the little kids).

As long as you feel she is getting appropriate training for her age and level, I would not worry about the others.

 

[gymdog]

I think the coaches probably came to the best arrangement available to them. It is not likely that they are at all motivated to have her do poorly so you can assume they have her interests at heart. It would certainly be reasonable to ask them to clarify when the arrangement might change, which will probably open up the conversation. Listen to their reasons. She is pretty young. It is most important now to stay safe and work on basics.

 

[CoachMeg]

I am not a parent, but this would bother me. As a coach I have to wonder how this would work as far as prepping for meets...working out with L2s but then competing as a L3? Seems odd. Are you paying the same tuition as the other L3 parents? Hopefully not because that would be ridiculous if they then made your daughter practice with a lower level 2 days a week. At our gym if we invite someone to compete at a different level, they then practice with that new level and come all the same hours as them. Do you think this is affecting your daughter's meet performance or progressions? What concerns me is she is getting no opportunity to up-train whereas the other L3s seem to. I would bring this up to the coach. Also that she is missing 2 hours of practice that the other L3s are getting, yet being expected to score just as high as them at meets.

I know a lot of parents are scared to raise concern with the coach in fear of being labeled as a CGM, but gymnastics is a very expensive sport and if you feel your daughter is being neglected you should speak to the coach or HC. A 7 year old scoring in the 37s at L3 should never be practicing with L2s. If anything she should be with the L4s!

 

[TxGymMom1]

I'm not quite sure I understand your post. Your DD was a L2 and competed L2 earlier this year and has now been moved up to L3? And your issue is that as a new L3, she's not on the same practice schedule and in the same group as the other L3s but only does some practices with them?

That sounds a bit like how our boys' team runs except the boys' team is even more fluid. There are 2-3 boys who sometimes work out in the L6 group and sometimes with the optionals when the two practice sessions overlap but work out with the L6s when they don't. It's fine -- that way the boys who are kind of in between are getting the advantage of working out with the higher level guys but are still getting the fundamentals they need.

If it works fine for 10-11 year old boys who are working out 16-20 hours a week and hoping to be optionals next year, I don't see why it wouldn't work for your daughter and the other girl as they transition from L2 to L3. As long as she's working hard and focusing in both groups, it's good for her. The one risk is that she picks up the sense that she's somehow above the training being offered when she's with the L2s and uses it as an excuse to get sloppy, which will slow down her overall progression.

Sorry I was not more clear -- no, she competed L2 last year and moved to L3 this year -- on the two days she is with her "team" -- they ALL work out with L4's -- so when she see's the rest of her "team" doing things like routines (L3) -- or backhandsprings (which is in her routine) and she is having to do forward rolls or something, then yea, it bothers her.

 

[Ali'sMom]

The only thing I can think of is that the other girls have been Level 3 for longer than your DD and the other little one. They are working on harder skills, getting ready to move to L4, yet your girls are still new to L3.
I would guess that the days they are with the L2's, they are still doing their L3 stuff, yes?

It would bother me, BUT, I had my own issue when my DD was moved up to L4 over the summer, but then I found out (after a month) that on Thursday she trained with the L3s. I was all "WTH?". Well, she needed more time on bars because her kip wasn't as good as the existing L4's, and on Thursday when she rotated with the 3's instead of the 4's, she got more time on the bars.

That said, I'd ask the coach "Is my DD not ready for the skills that the other L3s are doing?" and see what he says.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I am not a parent, but this would bother me. As a coach I have to wonder how this would work as far as prepping for meets...working out with L2s but then competing as a L3? Seems odd. Are you paying the same tuition as the other L3 parents? Hopefully not because that would be ridiculous if they then made your daughter practice with a lower level 2 days a week. At our gym if we invite someone to compete at a different level, they then practice with that new level and come all the same hours as them. Do you think this is affecting your daughter's meet performance or progressions? What concerns me is she is getting no opportunity to up-train whereas the other L3s seem to. I would bring this up to the coach. Also that she is missing 2 hours of practice that the other L3s are getting, yet being expected to score just as high as them at meets.

I know a lot of parents are scared to raise concern with the coach in fear of being labeled as a CGM, but gymnastics is a very expensive sport and if you feel your daughter is being neglected you should speak to the coach or HC. A 7 year old scoring in the 37s at L3 should never be practicing with L2s. If anything she should be with the L4s!

Coach Meg - We are coming to where you are!!
Tuition -- We pay $5 less per month than the older L3's -- who get 4 hours more per month training.
Performance/progression - Absolutely I feel this affects her performance. She really doesn't able to feel a part of either team - because she spends half of each week with them both. She can do all the things the older girls can do -- sometimes not as pretty because she is not allowed to practice them as much.
This was a real issue THIS week because our state competition is this weekend -- on the two days that she was with the L2's - it KILLED her to watch the other L3's working on their L3 routines -- and she was doing L2 stuff. It hurt her feelings -- but made me mad.
Scores -- while she still competitively scores amongst the older girls, the coach lines them up according to the scores they received at the last meet. So yes, she is held to the same expectations, but not given the same opportunities. On the days she is with the L3's and sometimes 4's -- as I said, she totally keeps up. I really think the age thing is unfair - I thought gymnastics was about ability?

 

[TxGymMom1]

Coach Meg - We are coming to where you are!!
Tuition -- We pay $5 less per month than the older L3's -- who get 4 hours more per month training.
Performance/progression - Absolutely I feel this affects her performance. She really doesn't able to feel a part of either team - because she spends half of each week with them both. She can do all the things the older girls can do -- sometimes not as pretty because she is not allowed to practice them as much.
This was a real issue THIS week because our state competition is this weekend -- on the two days that she was with the L2's - it KILLED her to watch the other L3's working on their L3 routines -- and she was doing L2 stuff. It hurt her feelings -- but made me mad.
Scores -- while she still competitively scores amongst the older girls, the coach lines them up according to the scores they received at the last meet. So yes, she is held to the same expectations, but not given the same opportunities. On the days she is with the L3's and sometimes 4's -- as I said, she totally keeps up. I really think the age thing is unfair - I thought gymnastics was about ability?

Also-- Our coach is not open to discussions.

 

[Aussie_coach]

The kids may view the level 2 skills as babay stuff but it's really more like their basics, fundamentals or foundation skills.

At a young age the emphasis on building strong basics is so very important. The coach would have made this desicion only because they feel there is going to be benefit to these girls both in the short and long term to spend extra time on the fundamental skills.

 

[TxGymMom1]

The only thing I can think of is that the other girls have been Level 3 for longer than your DD and the other little one. They are working on harder skills, getting ready to move to L4, yet your girls are still new to L3.
I would guess that the days they are with the L2's, they are still doing their L3 stuff, yes?

It would bother me, BUT, I had my own issue when my DD was moved up to L4 over the summer, but then I found out (after a month) that on Thursday she trained with the L3s. I was all "WTH?". Well, she needed more time on bars because her kip wasn't as good as the existing L4's, and on Thursday when she rotated with the 3's instead of the 4's, she got more time on the bars.

That said, I'd ask the coach "Is my DD not ready for the skills that the other L3s are doing?" and see what he says.

I appreciate your response. Her coach says it a ratio thing. The group does not do anything on the days she is not with them -- that she cant do -- and they do the same things on days she is with them. They are held to the same standard (scores) as other L3's but not given the same advantages.

 

[wallflower]

I've seen all sorts of arrangements for grouping kids. I assume they have a reason for it. It sounds like they only have one more meet, so I'd take a deep breath and let it go. It may not be fair, but the bigger picture of the whole gym can't always be fair to everyone. If the coach isn't open to discussion about it either, then what can you do anyway?

 

[TxGymMom1]

The only thing I can think of is that the other girls have been Level 3 for longer than your DD and the other little one. They are working on harder skills, getting ready to move to L4, yet your girls are still new to L3.
I would guess that the days they are with the L2's, they are still doing their L3 stuff, yes?

It would bother me, BUT, I had my own issue when my DD was moved up to L4 over the summer, but then I found out (after a month) that on Thursday she trained with the L3s. I was all "WTH?". Well, she needed more time on bars because her kip wasn't as good as the existing L4's, and on Thursday when she rotated with the 3's instead of the 4's, she got more time on the bars.

That said, I'd ask the coach "Is my DD not ready for the skills that the other L3s are doing?" and see what he says.

Actually I would be fine with it IF they were doing the L3 stuff on days with the L2's -- but they don't. Example - this week - with state this weekend, my DD was with the L2's WATCHING the other L3's practice ROUTINES.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I've seen all sorts of arrangements for grouping kids. I assume they have a reason for it. It sounds like they only have one more meet, so I'd take a deep breath and let it go. It may not be fair, but the bigger picture of the whole gym can't always be fair to everyone. If the coach isn't open to discussion about it either, then what can you do anyway?

I agree - there is not a lot I can do. Which is why I asked for opinions Thanks for your response!

 

[Ali'sMom]

I appreciate your response. Her coach says it a ratio thing. The group does not do anything on the days she is not with them -- that she cant do -- and they do the same things on days she is with them. They are held to the same standard (scores) as other L3's but not given the same advantages.

Then yes, I'd absolutely be upset.

So the days they're with the L2s, they aren't working on LEVEL 3 routines?? That would really bother me.

ETA: we posted at the same time

 

[Anna's_Mom]

Yes this arrangement would bother me -- sounds like she is definitely getting short changed. That said, if it is a ratio thing then there probably isn't much they can do about it since the restrictions are probably coming from the insurance company. However, I would definitely have advocated for the tuition for the L2 level given that she is doing the majority of her work with that group (if you take the 4 hours she doesn't get into consideration). At this point (well, after this weekend), I would ask what the plan was for the rest of the year -- when will she be able to be fully a member of the L3 squad? And if it isn't very soon, I'd go to the owner and request lower tuition in compensation for her lower quality training opportunities.

 

[IreneKa]

I can understand the ratio thing, but I don't understand why they can't practice L3 skills\routines while working with L2 group? Is level 2 coach not capable of coaching L3? Very unlikely. At our gym level 2 and 3 are working together, but each on their own skills and routines.
The only rational explanation seems to be the one provided by @Aussie_coach above, that they want the two of them to spend some more time working basics (maybe form issues or something).

 

[COz]

Firstly, I completely understand why you and your DD are frustrated. For the moment, I'd sit tight and say nothing. Here's why:

• They've already recognized that she was ready to move up to L3 and done something about it. It sounds like it would have been more convenient for the club to keep her in L2 space wise and with L3 girls who are presumably close to moving to L4 but not quite ready yet. They could have made her wait, but they didn't, so they've been nice and acknowledged her progress and allowed her to train and compete L3
• They've noticed that she's doing well even with the reduced training hours and training with L2s. Don't worry, they have, they've noticed and they're happy that she's able to do this and know that she'll do even better when she gets more hours.
• They're currently busy keeping the other L3 and L4 mothers happy by giving their girls the best opportunity to do well that they can offer also. They would be aware that the L4 mothers would be concerned that "those L2 girls who have just moved up" would have been taking time away from their kids who of course already have skills that your daughter didn't at the time. Those mothers are going to be more frustrated about the arrangement than the two of you are.
• They're in worry mode for states and those girls have been in L3/4 for longer and perhaps this is their last chance to get it right. Perhaps they're worried that the kids may get discouraged if they don't do well and want to minimize drop out. They've already shown encouragement of your DD.
• This is not the last time that this will probably happen. It's hard juggling girls of different levels (yes, I know she's doing well compared to them, but she still doesn't have their background. She'll do even better than them once she has). Be patient and don't show your stress to her or to the coaches (unless as someone said in another thread, she's still there in a year)
• Anything that you say just now will be unlikely to count in your favour. They're doing the best that they can by the sounds of it.
• If you DO say something, if you can find someone to say it to, you say "DD is loving training with the L3s. She's itching for more hours!" then roll your eyes and smile sympathetically. All the Mums want more hours, you can be the Mum who recognizes that this isn't happening just yet, but it will be and, you don't mention training with the L4s. You don't want to remind them of any complaints they've had about your girls taking time away from the others.
• This is clearly a temporary arrangement. They're transitioning them in. It'll change, she'll get more hours and do even better.

Sounds like she's doing really well. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

almost all of my groups are mixed in the gym from top to bottom. It shouldn't matter so long as your DD is working hard.