WAG Mom getting upset at L3 workout schedule - with L2's!

[bookworm]

I really don't get what all the drama is abut here...she's level 3....just let her be and don't make more of this than it is ...let her practice and feel positive about it ...if you really don't like the arrangement here I would ask how it is going forward because if it's always going to be like this, and you don't like that strategy, time to move on to a place that will make you (and her ) happy....

I guess I see Level 2 and 3 as more of rec type levels and that they should be a fun introduction into the sport...that said, I've been in a few gyms and have never seen kids "downtrain" (vs uptrain)...I guess I wouldn't care what grouping she was in as long as she was doing stuff for her level, even if the others weren't...and if you "can't ask the coaches" at this stage of the game, big RED FLAG that you are going to have communication issues going forward...

 

[rjb123]

Our experience since day one in team gymnastics has been that this is the way it goes. Coaches have favorites, some kids get more coaching, time, attention, hours, etc. Life isn't fair and gymnastics is certainly not fair either! BUT we have addressed these issues with our DD by telling her that 1) her coaches are wonderful, experienced coaches who know what they are doing. 2) Her coaches want the best for her gymnastics 3) they KNOW that these girls are getting "more", so if you WANT what they have, you need to PROVE to them that you are worth that "special treatment" too! 4) Just because they are in a special group at practice doesn't mean that you are or could be better than them, or that you can't beat them in a meet. 5) The most important thing is that YOU love gymnastics and you are doing it because it is coming from inside of you. If that is the case, you will make every second of practice count and this "stuff" won't matter.
Now, that said, as a parent it does bug me to see this stuff. However, as time goes by it bothers me a little less. Let it go, try to relax. This sport is a marathon not a sprint.

 

[2G1B]

I DO see it as an issue. It is all well and good to say that level 3 is only a rec level and it doesn't matter; but it sounds like the girls are starting to train level 4, which is a required level and going ahead and working those skills is important for a kid who is coming up on her last meet of level 3. It doesn't sound like it is "just" that these two kids have been given the chance to train some with the 3s. They competed a season of level 2 and were moved up to level 3. Now they ARE level 3s, almost done with their season at that level. Somehow some days of the week there is room for them with the level 3/4 group; but not other days? On those days are there less coaches or something?

If the girls have competed a season of level 2 and then were moved to level 3 then the gym should figure out a way to have room for them with the level 3s. Even if they can't do that, then they should have them working level 3 even when with the level 2s. They are NOT level 2s getting to work up, they ARE level 3s. They are almost done with their level 3 season. What happens next? They are level 4s only allowed to work level 3 skills 2 practices per week?

For my younger DD she is training level 4. She has 3 days of practice right now. Two days it is just the girls training level 4. One day all of the compulsories work together. On those days the different levels still train their level. So my DD might run through and do a cartwheel and the level 2s might end up sticking with that for a bit; but the other girls do one and then move to round offs. Once they have shown they have that, they move to ROBHS. If they are working say, beam routines, my DD would work the level 4 routine, NOT the level 2 or 3 routine. It makes no sense for these two little girls to be sitting on the side with the level 2s, watching the level 3s do their routines instead of having them do a routine run through too.

The whole set up would make me not happy. And that the coach wouldn't talk to me about it would make me even more unhappy. If the coach in deed wasn't willing to talk about it and come up with a better solution then I would start to consider that the gym isn't the best fit for my child. Most gyms around here try to really push the young kids who show early talent, not hold them back.

Oh, and while level 2 and 3 are both rec levels, they are very different levels.

 

[SignHere]

I'm with COz on this one. Your gym is trying to offer the best possible solution for all the girls plus the gym staff. Rather than just saying, "we don't have room in the level 3/4 group for these talented level 2's, so we'll just leave them where they are" they're trying to make it work for them. No solution can be 100% perfect for everyone involved. And I hate to say that their scores in level 3 don't matter... I know they matter to you and maybe to your daughter (or maybe not) but in the long term of her gymnastics "career", it just does't matter. It sounds like your DD is a talented young gymnast and 4 extra hours per month is not going to matter at all in her long-term development. I think that she will take her cues from you. If you say, "the coaches know you're good enough to be a level 3, but they want to make sure you still have time to be with your level 2 friends and working on your basics" she'll go with it. If you tell her, "practicing with those level 2 girls is a waste of your time", that's what she'll believe (and then it will be). As for being with her teammates, really, they're ALL her teammates. She will likely compete, at some point along the journey, with some of those girls who are level 2's now and with some who are level 5's now. It will change from year to year as some speed through levels and others develop fears or injuries. So for her to feel like those level 3 girls are her only "teammates" in the gym is not going to help her long term either.

I agree wholeheartedly with MaryA. It is so difficult in this situation, because either 1. You trust that this is the correct decision for your child and the coach has your child's best interest at heart. Or 2. You don't trust that this is the best decision for your child, and you suspect this decision is being made because it is THE GYM's best interest.

It is almost rote for members on CB to say " trust the coaches". But I feel like we are a bunch of Stepford Wives stumbling along, car keys and check books in hand, dropping our DDs and DSs off at these gyms.

Do you "trust the coaches"? That is the million dollar question. Your DD is, 7? So, you have some time to waste if they are wasting her time in a Level 2/3 training group because they don't have room in their Level 3 group for your DD, even though she is ready for Level 3, until Suzie gets her kip and can move up to 4.

But what happens when your DD is ready to move up to Level 4 and Suzie won't do her back walkover on beam, or her flyaway, and can't move up to 5? Is your DD going to have to repeat Level 3? Think about it. I would proceed very carefully here.

 

[bookworm]

I agree wholeheartedly with MaryA. It is so difficult in this situation, because either 1. You trust that this is the correct decision for your child and the coach has your child's best interest at heart. Or 2. You don't trust that this is the best decision for your child, and you suspect this decision is being made because it is THE GYM's best interest.

It is almost rote for members on CB to say " trust the coaches". But I feel like we are a bunch of Stepford Wives stumbling along, car keys and check books in hand, dropping our DDs and DSs off at these gyms.

.

I would say that when the gym is a good fit, you trust the coaches but when you know in your gut, something isn't right (be it coaching issues or group sizes or level placement etc) , you go with your gut...I've moved my girls twice , and people thought I was nuts both times , but it was the right decision both times...I'm no Stepford wife

 

[SignHere]

I would say that when the gym is a good fit, you trust the coaches but when you know in your gut, something isn't right (be it coaching issues or group sizes or level placement etc) , you go with your gut...I've moved my girls twice , and people thought I was nuts both times , but it was the right decision both times...I'm no Stepford wife

Bookworm, I agree. My point is that as parents, we need to be careful consumers. And you don't need to know how to coach or judge gymnastics in order to evaluate if your child us in a good place. Sometimes you just need to know what questions to ask, or you need to trust your "gut" as you say.

 

[COz]

Ha. I was trying to figure out where my reply went, but it was a reply to another thread that fits here too.

If I trust the coaches and something isn't working or I don't agree with a decision or the terrible communication etc. then I feel kind of exasperated, frustrated, but when I don't trust them, I feel angry, hurt, let down, betrayed and more angry. You're sounding (to me), on the angry side of things, more than just a frustrated vent, you don't feel that this is ok even though you can rationalise parts of the decision.
If you trust the coaches, then you'll have had a 'No I'm not!' Reaction to my last sentence

This was to someone else, but I think I still applies. Are you angry?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

such a shame that all this negative energy is being put in to "introduction to gymnastics" when only 3% of those kids will be seen at level 8 a few years later.

 

[meganliz77]

I really don't get what all the drama is abut here...she's level 3....just let her be and don't make more of this than it is ...let her practice and feel positive about it ...if you really don't like the arrangement here I would ask how it is going forward because if it's always going to be like this, and you don't like that strategy, time to move on to a place that will make you (and her ) happy....

I guess I see Level 2 and 3 as more of rec type levels and that they should be a fun introduction into the sport...that said, I've been in a few gyms and have never seen kids "downtrain" (vs uptrain)...I guess I wouldn't care what grouping she was in as long as she was doing stuff for her level, even if the others weren't...and if you "can't ask the coaches" at this stage of the game, big RED FLAG that you are going to have communication issues going forward...

Agreed.... I don't get why this is being made into such a big deal. There is a big increase in skill difficulty between 3 and 4. Sounds like she is still in need of fundamentals, so they gave her the benefit of the doubt by moving her to level 3 to allow her to continue advancing, while still working out the kinks.

I think a lot of this is perspective; at our gym ALL the girls are considered teammates--- from level 3 on up.... Why encourage or perpetuate an attitude of "better than" or "less than" by making a bigger deal out of this than what it is...

 

[TxGymMom1]

This happens in our gym and I can empathise. It's not quite the same situation - Girls doing the same level are trained differently. My dd is one of the ones on the lower hours. Most of the time I try not to let it get to me, but sometimes, when she is being got at for not being as polished on a skill as someone else, or for taking longer to get something, I want to scream. Of course it's going to take her longer and of course she won't be as polished and then she won't score as well.

My dd is fully aware that other girls get more hours and more attention at the same level (and I'm talking out of age girls here too, so not just the in age ones). She finds it very hard. She works very hard and wants to do her best but the playing field is far from level.

As I said, it's a bit different, but I'm guessing we share the whole mixed up confused, illogical, unjust, feeling that I want to do something but my hands are tied is hard!

I definitely feel your pain Mom - I would say our situations are very similar. Here is a change though -- even though my DD practices a few less hours per month, at state last weekend she scored very well (as she has all season) and the second day back to practice, she got her KIP -- (a day with the L3's of course because she isn't allowed to work on it with the L2's) -- and let me say that she is in the minority for the entire L3 group to even get this skill. It IS very frustrating however for her to be COMPARED to the older girls who have more opportunities to practice these skills -- and as you said, the playing field is ANYTHING BUT LEVEL. Good luck to you!

 

[TxGymMom1]

Agreed.... I don't get why this is being made into such a big deal. There is a big increase in skill difficulty between 3 and 4. Sounds like she is still in need of fundamentals, so they gave her the benefit of the doubt by moving her to level 3 to allow her to continue advancing, while still working out the kinks.

I think a lot of this is perspective; at our gym ALL the girls are considered teammates--- from level 3 on up.... Why encourage or perpetuate an attitude of "better than" or "less than" by making a bigger deal out of this than what it is...

A reply to you both -- I do not see any drama here -- that is a word that you both put into the post. What I did was ask a question to the coach/parents. While YOU may consider L2 and L3 a "rec" class/team -- that is NOT the way it is. I believe I also alluded to the fact that I was told by the coach that it was more of an AGE issue and NOT A SKILL one. After all, her scores on L3 are consistantly among the top 3 on the team -- and yes, that includes the older girls who DO receive more hours and more uptraining. One more thing, it is MY understanding that the kip is one of the more difficult skills to master for L4 -- just so you know, she got her first TEN kips yesterday (unassisted). So while you may see it as a "big jump" from L3 to L4 -- I disagree. Thanks for your input

 

[TxGymMom1]

such a shame that all this negative energy is being put in to "introduction to gymnastics" when only 3% of those kids will be seen at level 8 a few years later.

Wow - you hit it dead on with your "I add nothing to the conversation" disclaimer along the bottom of your post. Negative energy? Guess I missed that. Isn't this a place to ask other parents and/or coach's questions? If you don't have something nice to say ...... Just saying.

 

[TxGymMom1]

In DD's gym, not every girl who is competing the same level is in the same workout group, nor do all girls who are competing the same level practice the same number of hours. And I am talking about L7 plus. This is not unusual.

Over the years, I have learned that the best way for my DD and DS to move forward is for them to invest fully in working hard in whatever practice group they are in. The rest pretty much takes care of itself. Children take their cues from their parents, so if a parent encourages the feeling that it's unfair or that a child is working on "baby" skills, the child will not get as much out of the practice. I saw this over the summer with some of the boys and moms who were unhappy with their practice group, and guess who is now having more trouble on events? DD and two of her teammates, in contrast, were "held back" in a "lower" practice group with fewer hours, but were encouraged to do their best and work hard. All three of them have fully integrated into that group and are having good falls heading into the L8 season.

It's very important as a parent in this sport to think about how your child will reflect your attitudes and orientation toward what's going on in the gym, and what impact this reflection will have on your child's long-term prospects for advancement and success, if that's something that concerns you. Regardless of the circumstances, and even if you have questions or concerns worth raising, a positive attitude goes a long way. Even in situations where asking questions is appropriate, it's very wise to go into it from the presumption that coaches are acting in the best interest of the team's athletes, including your child. If you do not believe that this presumption is correct, then it's time to change gyms.

Thank you for your post. You answered my original question/thought -- which was -- does this happen often - and apparantly it does. I appreciate the insight.

 

[Quadqueen]

It sounds like you are very angry, and clearly not happy with your gym. You don't seem to want to hear what people have to say, unless they agree with you. Perhaps check out other gyms if you are so unhappy?

 

[TxGymMom1]

To answer your questions-yes it would bother me and no it's not normal at or gym. The level 2s only practice w the 2s, same for 3s, 4/5 is together, optionals are together.

My issue would be w the quality difference you are seeing...I'd definitely ask what's up, esp seeing as how it's just these two girls that are still practicing with the 2s.

Thank you! According to the coach -- it's an "age issue" as opposed to a "skill" issue.

 

[TxGymMom1]

It sounds like you are very angry, and clearly not happy with your gym. You don't seem to want to hear what people have to say, unless they agree with you. Perhaps check out other gyms if you are so unhappy?

Ummm.. no, i wouldn't say that I am "very angry" as I am not -- I just wondered if this was normal. And thoat question has been answered. Thanks for your input.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I didn't read all the replies but this was normal at our old gym. My daughter competed level 4 and worked out one day a week with the 5s, some of the 3s worked out an extra day with the 4s and some of the 4/5s that were ahead got to work out with the optional team 1-2 days a week. Confusing for sure.

I can totally see how that schedule would be confusing. It is a relief though to find out that our gym is not the only one who does it that way. Thanks for your reply.

 

[TxGymMom1]

Both my kids train in multi level and multi age groups, one from level 3-9 the other from level 3-7. The ages across these groups are from 7yrs to 19 yrs. Also the division within these groups can be fairly fluid and vary from day to day.
I understand your frustration, it is hard to watch your child practising with a group that is 2 or 3 levels below them and not think "why is the coach holding her back?"

At the end of the day I trust that the coach has my child's best interests at heart as well as the interests of every other child and parent in the gym. Even within a level not all the gymnasts will be equal in skill and ability, For example the girl who is strong at bars but struggles with beam will benefit from being in a group that is focusing on beam skills that day, her teammate who always stays on the beam but still tends to have a weak kip will benefit from working in the group that are focusing on kips. Same level gymnasts, but not necessarily in their best interests to always be in the same training group. While there are times that I arrive at the end of practice and see groupings that don't make sense to me I just try to remember that the coach is doing his best to juggle a group of girls and get the best from all of them.

Hopefully this is only a temporary arrangement for your DD, I don't understand why when she is with the level 2 group she can't practice the level 3 routines? In my kids gym if the coach waited until everyone in the training group was the same level before running through routines it would just never happen!

Very insightful reply! I do like our gym and think she has two very good coaches -- I do like the way your gym focuses on whatever event they are having difficulties with and thats the group they go with for the day.

 

[Quadqueen]

Perhaps it's your use of ALL CAPS. Typically, that portrays anger or a high level of emotion. And telling Dunno he adds nothing to the conversation. You haven't been around long enough to understand he KNOWS what he is talking about.

People come here for advice - some is what they want to hear, some is not.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I'm with COz on this one. Your gym is trying to offer the best possible solution for all the girls plus the gym staff. Rather than just saying, "we don't have room in the level 3/4 group for these talented level 2's, so we'll just leave them where they are" they're trying to make it work for them. No solution can be 100% perfect for everyone involved. And I hate to say that their scores in level 3 don't matter... I know they matter to you and maybe to your daughter (or maybe not) but in the long term of her gymnastics "career", it just does't matter. It sounds like your DD is a talented young gymnast and 4 extra hours per month is not going to matter at all in her long-term development. I think that she will take her cues from you. If you say, "the coaches know you're good enough to be a level 3, but they want to make sure you still have time to be with your level 2 friends and working on your basics" she'll go with it. If you tell her, "practicing with those level 2 girls is a waste of your time", that's what she'll believe (and then it will be). As for being with her teammates, really, they're ALL her teammates. She will likely compete, at some point along the journey, with some of those girls who are level 2's now and with some who are level 5's now. It will change from year to year as some speed through levels and others develop fears or injuries. So for her to feel like those level 3 girls are her only "teammates" in the gym is not going to help her long term either.

Love your response. Thank you. And I certainly don't tell her my opinion on it -- I encourage her to help her L2 friends (who often ask her for advice). Thanks again.