WAG Partial Judges ??

[seoulmama]

I particularly hate it when a coach is judging a meet and they score their kids higher. I know it is not SUPPOSED to happen, but it does.

Yep, saw this happen at a state meet-I don't understand how a coach can feel comfortable judging one of their own gymnasts.

 

[htimcj]

It wasn't too bad maybe $60. Thought it was worth it. It also let's you know what are a,b,c skills.

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

well, htimcj, we may have to pick your brain (or book) some during the season if we have questions!

 

[htimcj]

I'll be sure to have my book

 

[luvmygymdtr]

Not to long ago I found "revised pages to download" on the USAG website that had a wealth of information on deductions for every single event. I just went back to try to locate that information to link it here, but can't find it. No doubt I'll have down time at work and I'll try to re-locate the information to share. But I'm always looking at those "revised pages". (now you can call ME crazy).

 

[sglemon]

In our state it is awful! Especially at compulsory states. One particular gym, places a head judge at each table. Their gymnasts would make several obvious error, like steps on dismount from bars, broken routines, like completely stopping after a kip and readjusting herself before the FHS, bent arms and legs on a bar routine and they will score 9.8. Same with all the routines. Girls who have scored 35-36s all season, would all of a sudden score 38-39s at states, a week later. On beam a year ago, one of their gymnasts, when into a handstand fell off the end of the beam got back on, never completing a handstand getting a 9.0. The rest of her routine wasn't flawless. This last states, the judges kept arguing at floor, there were obvious descrepencies in the scoring. Of course this gym win states year, after year, after year. This past states, the coaches from various gyms were fuming. The whole feeling of the competition was off, and more tense than usual. Parents watching could see obvious scoring descrepencies, even if they did have scoring experience. automatic deductions, like falls, etc weren't adding up, like a person would fall 3 times from beam and score over an 8.5. There were suppose to be some formal complaints filed. This particular gym, has it fingers so deep, complaints never get far. The only justice at the end, is that their program drops way off after compulsories. They actually pretty bad at the optional levels. I probably said to much, but my dd no longer does gymnastics, in part to this gym.

 

[Muddlethru]

I agree with some of the posts above,

1) As parents, we are not trained to see the minor deductions or little skill requirements (i.e., required amplitude, required swing angles, etc.). We know the general skill and the stick, but not the big gap in between.

2) Judges have their own tastes and what they look for. In addition, I think judges are allowed to award or deduct up to .3 in optionals on artistic merit or whatever. If I were a judge, I would score a clean, strongly executed routine with a fall or stumble higher than a weakly executed routine without a fall or stumble. That is my taste.

3) Nonetheless, I do think there could be a little bias particularly if they have a good relationship with the gym. But I don't think scores are grossly increased. I think maybe up to a .2.

I am sometimes not happy with some scores and don't understand why it isn't higher. But I figured there must be a reason, whatever it is. So, I just move on.

 

[2G1B]

I will say that I try to go with the assumption that I don't know what the judges are looking for. I don't know all of the little deductions - that all add up. And I don't know how much they take off for the big things.

We changed gyms this year. I did get frustrated last year with a lot of parents constantly saying, "the judges are harder on our girls. They score these other teams higher." All.the.time. At one meet the complaint was about this other team's vault scores. I started watching the other ream. They were AMAZING. Seriously, those girls deserved those higher scores! And sure, our girls were probably scoring lower than at other meets because we were up against this team; but it is because if they give one of those girls a 9.8 for a nearly flawless vault they surely can't give our girl who stutter stepped and had a bit of a pike a 9.2. I often found myself trying to stand up for the judges or just saying, "yeah; but we don't really know all of the deductions and what they are looking for."

Well, we were up against our old team last week. It was a meet at our new gym. One of the mom's from the old gym actually told me that the judges were *obviously* favoring the girls from our new team and giving them scores that they didn't deserve. That the old gym's girls were so much better and were getting robbed.

I have daughters in 2 consecutive levels. The higher level had gone before the lower level and for the higher level our old team actually beat our new team for the team award. This mom is a fellow mom for the lower level. She had no real explanation for why the judges would only favor us for the lower level.

It really made me mad and also made me realize that I will make a point to NOT be that mom. I will continue with my sermon of, "well, we don't know what they are looking for exactly."

 

[skschlag]

2G1B- That is so true. In general, judges are not here to "get" our kids, but they are human. We have one judge in our state that works on one apparatus with another gym, and judges that apparatus. We do think we see a bias, but our coach always says that we can only control what we can control. We just have to go out and do everything we can.

We had a "situation" at regionals. D did his usually pommel routine, and he scores high all the time. He didn't. We were confused. It was a full point lower than usual. No one knew what had happened. Even the coach was confused. He had an issue earlier with that judge, and several other coaches had as well. SO we were stuck.

I showed D the routine on video since he was confused. He looks at the video and goes..."OOPS! I did the wrong routine!" QUestion answered. The judge was right

 

[sglemon]

I

In our state it is awful! Especially at compulsory states. One particular gym, places a head judge at each table. Their gymnasts would make several obvious error, like steps on dismount from bars, broken routines, like completely stopping after a kip and readjusting herself before the FHS, bent arms and legs on a bar routine and they will score 9.8. Same with all the routines. Girls who have scored 35-36s all season, would all of a sudden score 38-39s at states, a week later. On beam a year ago, one of their gymnasts, when into a handstand fell off the end of the beam got back on, never completing a handstand getting a 9.0. The rest of her routine wasn't flawless. This last states, the judges kept arguing at floor, there were obvious descrepencies in the scoring. Of course this gym win states year, after year, after year. This past states, the coaches from various gyms were fuming. The whole feeling of the competition was off, and more tense than usual. Parents watching could see obvious scoring descrepencies, even if they did have scoring experience. automatic deductions, like falls, etc weren't adding up, like a person would fall 3 times from beam and score over an 8.5. There were suppose to be some formal complaints filed. This particular gym, has it fingers so deep, complaints never get far. The only justice at the end, is that their program drops way off after compulsories. They actually pretty bad at the optional levels. I probably said to much, but my dd no longer does gymnastics, in part to this gym.

I should add, I don't think my dd scores were off, nor have they ever been. She scores pretty consistently though the season and scores about the same at states. She was very consistent gymnast, no falls or major mistakes throughout the seasons. I do usually see, however, if she was scored lower than usual on a apparatus, most of the girls competing are being scored lower than usual, and visa versa. Of course I am not taking about a particular gym, there is running joke among the community, this particular gym gets .2 for their Leo's

 

[Natasha]

In our state Level 5 (old) and up have always had 4 judges at the state meet. The highest and lowest score is dropped and the middle 2 scores are averaged. They do this because we are a smaller gymnastics state and so many of the judges have some type of affiliation to gyms. Head Judges for each event have to be unaffiliated judges. Also, judges are assigned by the state Judges association. Host gyms have no say over who comes to judge a meet, they submit a request for the number and level of judges needed for the meet and then the judges are assigned by the state.

 

[beamer]

Every new gym parent should be given some sort of "deduction" manual the minute his/her child gets asked to be on team. I bought one when DD was competing (old) Level 4 compulsories that detailed the deductions for all the routines and I have never, ever questioned scores since.

Even though this has the potential to cause many Crazy Gym Parent problems (can you just see all the filming and parents at home with their manuals and pointers, pausing these films to point out deductions??), it might solve a great many too!

Since I got my deduction manual, I must say, quite often it has seemed (given the sheer mind boggling number of potential deductions!) that the judges in our state are being kind and generous -- especially to the kids like my DD, who struggle in the form department...

I don't believe I will even need a manual now that DD is an optional. I don't want to have any recognition of all the ways she can go wrong!

 

[Gymdad2]

Just a thought here - Sometimes it may be easier to blame the judges for scores, but can any of us honestly say that we are NOT partial to our own dd's and want to see them do well? Of course we are as we should be.

 

[Flossyduck]

I remember going to watch a competition where girls from a smaller club a friend of mine coached at seemed to get hammered on their scores for no obvious reason. It was my first experience of competition and dd and I went along to get a sense of the atmosphere and how things worked, before she did her own.

I was sat with my coach friend and she was nodding and saying 'beautiful' of the girls from a couple of the more elite clubs, when I couldn't see the difference.

I spoke to my friend afterwards and she explained that deductions are made for the position of hands in a roundoff, or a flic on beam, position of the head in somis and so many other tiny things. She was quite happy to accept that the coaches in her gym didn't always teach the technically perfect way of doing these skills and they suffered the deductions for it.

I'm so grateful that this was explained to me before I started attending dd's competitions, otherwise it would have driven me potty, because I still can't for the life of me tell the difference much of the time, but I do believe her when she said there is one.

 

[Gymdaddio]

My DD always gets robbed. Just ask her grandmother. HaHa.

 

[sglemon]

In our state Level 5 (old) and up have always had 4 judges at the state meet. The highest and lowest score is dropped and the middle 2 scores are averaged. They do this because we are a smaller gymnastics state and so many of the judges have some type of affiliation to gyms. Head Judges for each event have to be unaffiliated judges. Also, judges are assigned by the state Judges association. Host gyms have no say over who comes to judge a meet, they submit a request for the number and level of judges needed for the meet and then the judges are assigned by the state.

I wish our state is like that. They don't get 4 judges until optionals, which is the reason, I believe a certain gym is not as competitive in the optional levels. Heck I would be just happy if head judges from different areas in the state were placed on the different apparatus, or gyms hosting meets couldn't use their own judges, who also happen to be the host gym coaches.

 

[skschlag]

I have an idea fro USAG. It is the "judge exchange program." It could be done at states or regionals or both. The idea is that states or regions "swap" judges for those events. How cool woudl it be to have fresh eyes!

Of course, different judges look for different things so i twould be much harder to get ready for, but it sure would cut down on some of the perceived judge bias!

 

[2G1B]

Sounds like a good idea; but can you imagine if a judge from a different area ended up in TX? From what I have read here it sounds like TX is a different world than the region my kids are in, so if a judge from here went to TX those first few kids might get crazy high scores before the judges realized that all of the kids are good.

 

[OzZee]

Also what you see from the stands is very different to what you see a couple of feet away from the apparatus.

Though saying that I do know of some not so impartial judges but most judges are there for the right reasons and try to be impartial at all times and not look at who they are judging.