Spotting during a meet

[gymmom-n-coach]

I coach L3, and one of my girls is terrified of mill circles. She will do them with a spot only. We've tried a few times without the spot (with 8" mats stacked underneath) - and she drops the leg, drops the chest, and basically just falls under the bar. Plus, she has a tendency to let go. When I spot her, at least I get some effort, and I just have to help "pop" her at the end.

Hopefully we can get through this before our first meet - but if not, is it better to just let her try it alone, and of course be there in case I need to catch her if she lets go - or to give her the spot?

I'm afraid if she does it herself and doesn't make it, she will either cry or just be "off", and it will affect the cut back and dismount (which she can almost do by herself).

What would the deduction for the spot be? Would it be the value of the entire skill?

 

[10.0]

Just spot her. The spot deduction is a lot less than a fall, especially since as well as the actual fall she will still incur any form deductions. Plus it might shanke her up for the rest of the meet. Just spot her this time and works toward no spot again after the first meet.

 

[gymkat]

Just spot her. The spot deduction is a lot less than a fall, especially since as well as the actual fall she will still incur any form deductions. Plus it might shanke her up for the rest of the meet. Just spot her this time and works toward no spot again after the first meet.

In compulsories in USAG, a spot is the value of the element plus .5...

Right now, it sounds like the gymnast wouldn't be safe attempting the skill without a spot. Plus, depending on how badly she does the element, she very well may be getting the fall plus little to no credit for the skill. I'd spot until she's comfortable attempting it by herself.

 

[gymdog]

In compulsories in USAG, a spot is the value of the element plus .5...

Right now, it sounds like the gymnast wouldn't be safe attempting the skill without a spot. Plus, depending on how badly she does the element, she very well may be getting the fall plus little to no credit for the skill. I'd spot until she's comfortable attempting it by herself.

I agree, it seems like in this scenario she's not close to completing the element anyway. Also, you won't be able to stack mats at the meet, and falling off like that can be dangerous, so it's a no-brainer to me to spot her if she can't do it reliably.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I coach L3, and one of my girls is terrified of mill circles. She will do them with a spot only. We've tried a few times without the spot (with 8" mats stacked underneath) - and she drops the leg, drops the chest, and basically just falls under the bar. Plus, she has a tendency to let go. When I spot her, at least I get some effort, and I just have to help "pop" her at the end.

Hopefully we can get through this before our first meet - but if not, is it better to just let her try it alone, and of course be there in case I need to catch her if she lets go - or to give her the spot?

I'm afraid if she does it herself and doesn't make it, she will either cry or just be "off", and it will affect the cut back and dismount (which she can almost do by herself).

What would the deduction for the spot be? Would it be the value of the entire skill?

who cares?! it's a stooooooopid skill anyway. spot her so you can get her to level 5.

 

[emacmommy]

For USAG Level 3, Level 4 and even Level 5 (I think), spotting is not the value of the skill. It is only .5, the same as a fall. However omitting or skipping the skill is twice the value of the element. I'll look in my compulsory regs tomorrow for the exact wording.

I stand and safety spot all my Level 3's on bars, unless I know without a shadow of a doubt they are not going to do something freakish while they are in this high state of nervousness. You only get a spotting deduction if you are hands on. If they fall and you spot, for these Levels only, it is only a fall deduction. I only have hands on if I know they need it. We've had some flinger-dingers on back hip circles too and I've been glad I was there.

Level 3 is supposed to be introduction to competition and most girls at this introductory level have no clue how to crash and fall correctly without going limp as a noodle, which of course can lead to injury. I'd rather have a gymnast not be afraid to go full tilt and have a coach stand there and even put my hands on. I have a squad of 8 Level 3's to start in a month and by golly I will be spotting at least 6 of them. Four of them have a chance of making it by themselves, so I will stand there, let them try and when the get to the point that it looks like they are going to be unsuccessful we bump them back up. The other four still need quite a bit of help, so I will help.

I noticed you are in Pennsylvania. I don't know all of the "alternative" program names there, such as AAU or the "moonie's", but if you are competing any of these alternative programs, the deduction for spot may also be different. I coached a week session at Woodward a few years ago and we had several "moonies" in our group. The reference to moonies I was told had to do with the town, county or school program that they were part of.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

OMG Dunno, you crack me up! I am still laughing! I glad a coach thinks it is a stupid skill too.

 

[Linsul]

who cares?! it's a stooooooopid skill anyway. spot her so you can get her to level 5.

That^^

I've seen girls get teary over this that have gorgeous casts, front & back hip circles, even their kips. I absolutely tell them the mill circle doesn't deserve their tears because...frankly...it's a dead end skill.

 

[gymmom-n-coach]

For USAG Level 3, Level 4 and even Level 5 (I think), spotting is not the value of the skill. It is only .5, the same as a fall. However omitting or skipping the skill is twice the value of the element. I'll look in my compulsory regs tomorrow for the exact wording.

Thank you! This is what I need to be sure of -- we are USAG in western PA (no moonies ). I think the deduction SHOULD only be .5 - just want to be certain.

 

[gymkat]

Thank you! This is what I need to be sure of -- we are USAG in western PA (no moonies ). I think the deduction SHOULD only be .5 - just want to be certain.

I'm a USAG judge. The deduction for a spot during a skill is .5 plus the value of the skill in all USAG compulsory levels. It's under "neutral deductions taken by each judge."

 

[gymmom-n-coach]

Thank you for clarifying!

Out of curiousity - do you see many coaches take that with mill circles?

 

[gymkat]

Thank you for clarifying!

Out of curiousity - do you see many coaches take that with mill circles?

At the beginning of the season, I'd guess that at least 1/3 of the L3s in my area have spots on either the mill circle or the dismount. I can't speak for other areas, but in my state, that wouldn't stand out at all.

 

[10.0]

Honestly in my area probably only 15-25% of the kids have it unspotted. Most of them may be physically able to do it, but it is scary and they usually over or under rotate it and fall anyways. And honestly for us as the year progresses the amount of kids that have it really does not improve. I would guess maybe only 25-35% of our level 4's have it. I am totally with Dunno, it is a stupid useless skill. It would be my number one pick for most useless skill. I now want to do a survey of all the level 5-elite and see how many of them can do it, might be interesting

 

[gymnastgets10]

Honestly in my area probably only 15-25% of the kids have it unspotted. Most of them may be physically able to do it, but it is scary and they usually over or under rotate it and fall anyways. And honestly for us as the year progresses the amount of kids that have it really does not improve. I would guess maybe only 25-35% of our level 4's have it. I am totally with Dunno, it is a stupid useless skill. It would be my number one pick for most useless skill. I now want to do a survey of all the level 5-elite and see how many of them can do it, might be interesting

It is so useless! When I was in level 4 I would always over rotate it and either do a second mill circle or bend both knees really far to stop my momentum. And since I learned a squat-on the scariest skill in gymnastics for me is now the single leg shoot through!

 

[fishchimes]

Thankfully I never had to compete the stupid thing. I did it once, just so I could say I had all my level 4 skills, and that was good enough for me. It's just plain uncomfortable to do, especially when you fall and scrape the inside of your knees. SUPPOSEDLY it helps with kips, but in my opinion the uncomfortableness outweighs any benefit. If I were a coach I would only train it until they could do it with a light spot and train real skills instead.

 

[ivyagogo]

Our head coach and I have had this discussion about mill circles too. They used to be relevant when the bars were closer and you could release your hands and catch the high bar during a mill circle. It was a transition skill. Now it's dead, but they are still fun.

 

[gymdog]

I now want to do a survey of all the level 5-elite and see how many of them can do it, might be interesting

I know I can do both a shoot through and mill circle because I demonstrated it the other day. I would venture a guess that if you gathered up gymnasts over L5 most of them could easily do this in a couple tries. If not, heaven help us, that's my only comment. Leg cuts are harder than either to me, but my wrists are so bad I have genuine fear of doing things like that from the strike pain. We don't have competitive L3, so the mill circle without spot doesn't come into play at that point, but there have to be thousands upon thousands of L4s in this country (many of whom probably aren't going to get past L6, let's be honest) who can physically perform a mill circle (maybe it's ugly). I understand the viewpoint that it's a "dead end skill" (although I don't necessarily agree - it's an introduction of alternate grip placement and keeping with the intent of the compulsory program to provide a "library of movement" as a foundation). Personally as a developmental (and upper level - I work with many levels) coach, I would continue to introduce it even if removed from the compulsory program because I believe children at these levels need to learn how to control their body in different ways. There was a mill circle when I did L4 and I don't think it was that big a deal.

Basically, I'm sure plenty of L3s can't do it, but I think it's a little dramatic to act like it's seriously too hard. I wouldn't move a child to a L4 group without it, and I don't have that many issues teaching it. Most important is to introduce the beginning "fall" part with straight arms and push down on the bar, rather than dumping over, and to teach the same thing coming over the bar (hey, sounds like everything else ever on bars! Neat!). Even if the only benefit is to teach them confidence in leaning and falling forward over the bar, that's still a pretty fundamental role to fit neatly into a level 4 routine.

 

[All Chalked Up]

I don't even see the point of it. You can't make a step from it like you can with roundoff to roundoff backhandspring. By the way, dunno you made my day

 

[NGL780309]

I was totally feeling like DD had missed the curse of the mill circle because she had them beautifully for weeks! I have it on video to prove it. Suddenly she can't stop at the top. What's the deal? She might stop once on top out of a gazillion times. Any tips for helping her stop?

 

[gymmom-n-coach]

Make sure she is lifting the top leg once she goes around - only the back leg can ride the bar. Legs start in a big split, big step, and lift once on top again.