WAG Working through optional skills

[B.Gold]

In upper-level optionals, how much time should a coach give the acquisition of a new to "newish' skill before giving up on the skill altogether and moving on towards another "option" to fulfill a requirement?

In this case, specifically, a pak vs a bail or a "C" bar dismount that leads nowhere vs a double-back dismount.

My dd tends to pick up skills and decent form relatively quickly. My impression is that when she actually struggles on a skill her primary coach loses patience, gives up on the skill and finds something else she can do....after all, it's called optionals for a reason. But I'm trying hard to trust that switching out these two skills is in her best interest, I just can't get myself on board, particularly on that dismount.

 

[titanic]

I don't understand what a C dismount that goes nowhere is?

And I don't think the difference between a pak and bail is that much. When you first compete a pak, the gymnast tends to score lower because they'll have to had an extra pirouette to turn around. It pays off if the gymnast starts learning Shaposhnikovas though.

 

[B.Gold]

I don't understand what a C dismount that goes nowhere is?
.

Toe-front - maybe I should have written, doesn't lead to a more difficult dismount like the DB does.

 

[B.Gold]

And it's not so much changing out skills that I'm curious about...I'm really more curious about how much time should be given on a skill before a gymmast should give up on it.

 

[duyetanh]

I have no idea on that one, but I can tell you that in my child's case, she fought for her skills all year....because she is the type to get them and then lose them and then get them again for real....sorry you are going through this...I know my kid wants to do a double back on bars (when and if she ever gets there) so because of her 'want,' it will fuel her 'need,' so to speak...but every child is different. Her good friend's want of a double back is not working for her because of other reasons, so they are adjusting. Good luck!

 

[gymgal]

I suppose all of this depends on the philosophy of your gym. Are the girls learning skills the summer before they are competing them? If so, then it is more important for them to learn a skill quickly so they have time to perfect it. If you are talking about a skill that she wont need for at least a year or more, then you have more time to spend on those skills. In your dd's case in particular, maybe the coach already sees something that points him/her to think the skill in question is not worth going after right now (form, fear, air awareness, etc).

 

[B.Gold]

In your dd's case in particular, maybe the coach already sees something that points him/her to think the skill in question is not worth going after right now (form, fear, air awareness, etc).

Very possibly... It was said it is what is "realistic" for her. So I'm grappling with the disappointment that she may never have a very strong bar set with a decent L10 dismount. Is that an overreaction? Or is it justifiable assuming that?

My dd loves the dismount because it's different and her primary coach is really enthusiastic about it.

 

[gymmomx2]

Her dismount could lead to a Moors - toe on to a front layout half. It's a D.

 

[gymgal]

Very possibly... It was said it is what is "realistic" for her. So I'm grappling with the disappointment that she may never have a very strong bar set with a decent L10 dismount. Is that an overreaction? Or is it justifiable assuming that?

My dd loves the dismount because it's different and her primary coach is really enthusiastic about it.

How old is she and what level? What are her goals for the future? elite/college? This all makes a difference. There are a lot of L10's and college gymnasts doing "just c" dismounts on bars.

 

[B.Gold]

7th grade, competed L9 this year, will definitely repeat L9 next year. Has all her L10 skills on beam, working 10 on bars and floor...

Her goal is to compete college gym...
She's in a 20\hr a week program that gets girls walk-ons and scholarships.

 

[B.Gold]

Her dismount could lead to a Moors - toe on to a front layout half. It's a D.

Interesting, I had no idea. she's actually working a toe on to Pike half. Are you aware of any ncaa girls competing that?

 

[sce]

Interesting, I had no idea. she's actually working a toe on to Pike half. Are you aware of any ncaa girls competing that?

She is still pretty young lots of time to get a variety of skills, it really sounds like you are over-analyzing her skills.

 

[duyetanh]

I am sure this is showing my stupidity as a gym parent, but couldn't she switch to a double back in a couple years? I mean, it isn't like tricks can't be changed...and she still has five years before college. I would think if she had it by sophomore year that would be ok? Again, this is spoken by someone who has NO clue....but the Moors dismount I swear I saw somewhere on tv at one of those college meets....darned if I know who though....I didn't even know it was called a Moors, lol, just remember it was a toe on to something or other, which more than likely was a front layout something or other.
Sorry for the vagueness.
I suck.
But I am trying. I swear I saw it before. Hopefully others will chime in.

 

[gymmomx2]

Interesting, I had no idea. she's actually working a toe on to Pike half. Are you aware of any ncaa girls competing that?

I have no idea if anyone in NCAA does it. I think that I have seen front bar dismounts in College gym but I couldn't tell you who it was.

If she is already working on toe on to pike half, the Moors dismount seems doable for her.

 

[Gymmom5]

I believe a gymnast from Southern Utah competed a Moors dismount.
https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/suu-gymnastics
The last video on the page I think.

 

[gymgal]

I have seen college girls dismount with toe fronts with and without twisting, including at Nationals, if I remember correctly. I would not say it is common, but it is there.

She is very young. Your gym has success getting girls to the level they need to be for college gymnastics. I would let this go for now. My guess is that the coaches are just trying to get her a good solid routine for L10 first. Then later they can add skills. She has so much time to learn more complex skills to add later. The colleges seem to be looking just for solid L10 10.0 start value routines for the young girls. The best colleges will be expecting these girls to continue to train and get those higher skills (more Ds and some Es) but not necessarily expecting them in 8th-9th grade.

 

[Aero]

She may not have a double tucked flyaway yet, but by learning a toe hecht type dismount, she is training similar movement patterns for very hard skills in the future, like Tkatchevs and Shaposhnikovas. It could definitely be worth her time. Plus, as long as she meets the minimum difficulty required for the dismount, she'll do just fine; difficulty can be added elsewhere in her bar routine with other skills.

Don't sweat it.

 

[duyetanh]

I do think it is hard as parents (not there yet, but know I could possibly be in the future) to see other kids doing tricks that they thought their child would also be doing. But if you trust the coaches (sounds like you do), then don't worry...it is probably all part of the 'master plan...'

 

[titanic]

Ellie Black competes the Moors dismount too. If she ever goes elite, there you go



However for level 10, a C dismount will be fine. Toe HS to dismount.

 

[B.Gold]

I do think it is hard as parents (not there yet, but know I could possibly be in the future) to see other kids doing tricks that they thought their child would also be doing.

^^This absolutely!! Plus all the other chatter I hear from other knowledgeable people regarding this dismount that puts doubt in my mind.

Thanks all!! I feel better about it for now. She does love doing that dismount.