WAG Judge My DDs Bar Routine (Lvl 5)

[2G1B]

I am a judge as well and scored it at 8.15. The hit of her feet in the mat, some of her cast/clear angles not being high enough, the height of tap swings, and the dismount accounted for a majority of execution deductions. Leg separation was apparent in a number of the elements as well. And I took a rhythm deduction since the routine appeared slow. Level 5 bars is hard, definitely can't compare it to the lower levels!

I'm curious about the casts. It is my understanding that they just have to be above horizontal and these were a little above to my eye. So would there be deductions because they aren't well past horizontal?

 

[3rd_time_around]

She got a 8.1 which seemed drastically low to us (and even the coaches). If anyone viewing this is a coach or a judge we would love a comprehensive list of deductions. We could only see few small things like slight leg separation on 2 parts, the tap swings seemed low, and a small stumble on the dismount. Her lvl 4 bars were usually in the 9.3s, and she got 9.5+ many times on lvl 3 bars. Bars are her "jam", but this score seemed way, way off. This was her first meet.

I got an 8.2-8.4, just watching it like at a meet.

 

[Mommyo2az]

I'm curious about the casts. It is my understanding that they just have to be above horizontal and these were a little above to my eye. So would there be deductions because they aren't well past horizontal?

Without the benefit of slomo they appeared to be below horizontal after the kip and the clear hip. I didn't take the full deduction but a small one. When the cast has arch it makes it even harder to tell IMO

 

[3rd_time_around]

I found this one on YouTube. The bar routine is about 1 min in, and it scored very well, just to compare. This girl still has her head out, and a few minor things, but her form is really good. Maybe watch this and rewatch your video and you'll have a better understanding? (You don't have to, I just thought a comparison video would help you.)

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I'm curious about the casts. It is my understanding that they just have to be above horizontal and these were a little above to my eye. So would there be deductions because they aren't well past horizontal?

The closer to vertical will score better (not positive but I believe so).

And regarding things like above horizontal, the whole body counts, so if feet are high because belly is low, as in below horizontal, then the cast is not above horizontal. Again shapes matter.

I could be messing this up but the shape needs to be hollow not arched. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Junior Olympics/compulsory/illustratedroutines_feb14.pdf

 

[2G1B]

I understand about the arch and all; but is it going to score higher if it goes close to vertical? So is there a deduction for if it isn't significantly above? Or is there a bonus if they hit at or near vertical? I thought that as long as it was above horizontal that it didn't get deducted (I do understand how the archiness of the the first one could make the judge unsure of if it was above horizontal, and obviously there were deductions for her feet coming apart, so there are deductions for that).

I figured that it was sort of like Xcel... if a kid competes a beautiful RO/BHS/BT it doesn't score any better than this other kids RO/BHS in Gold. There is no bonus for the tougher skill as long as both meet the requirement. (I though that going *just* above horizontal wouldn't get scored lower than going to vertical since "above horizontal" is all that is required.) I understand that generally a girl who can go to vertical on her cast is going to generally have an all around cleaner level 5 routine since she likely is more advanced on bars than someone going just above horizontal, so I get that they will score higher; but it seems that the cast height shouldn't be what is making a difference...

 

[Mommyo2az]

I understand about the arch and all; but is it going to score higher if it goes close to vertical? So is there a deduction for if it isn't significantly above? Or is there a bonus if they hit at or near vertical? I thought that as long as it was above horizontal that it didn't get deducted (I do understand how the archiness of the the first one could make the judge unsure of if it was above horizontal, and obviously there were deductions for her feet coming apart, so there are deductions for that).

I figured that it was sort of like Xcel... if a kid competes a beautiful RO/BHS/BT it doesn't score any better than this other kids RO/BHS in Gold. There is no bonus for the tougher skill as long as both meet the requirement. (I though that going *just* above horizontal wouldn't get scored lower than going to vertical since "above horizontal" is all that is required.) I understand that generally a girl who can go to vertical on her cast is going to generally have an all around cleaner level 5 routine since she likely is more advanced on bars than someone going just above horizontal, so I get that they will score higher; but it seems that the cast height shouldn't be what is making a difference...

No bonus for going to handstand or far above horizontal. But the more "above" horizontal it is, the less questionable it will be to a judge!!

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Bent legs on her kips, all three, so .3 total (tenth each one)
Arch cast .1 or a half tenth
Bent arms on kips all three .3 total (tenth each one)
Hit her feet on the floor .3
Feet apart on squat on .1
feet apart on high bar cast (toes to pointing on the way down). half tenth for each, so .1 total.
leg separation no the baby giant .1
counter swings were low .2 (being nice)
Fly away was low .1
multiple steps on the dismount. .2
Also depends on the judge as far as the degree of casts and free hips, but I left those alone.
So depending on the judge anywhere from an 8.1 to 8.5. Don't hit your feet and add .3

 

[Deleted member 14190]

The closer to vertical will score better (not positive but I believe so).

And regarding things like above horizontal, the whole body counts, so if feet are high because belly is low, as in below horizontal, then the cast is not above horizontal. Again shapes matter.

I could be messing this up but the shape needs to be hollow not arched. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Junior Olympics/compulsory/illustratedroutines_feb14.pdf

Closer to vert, technically no, but realistically yes.

 

[Muffinsmom]

There's no deduction till level 6 for casts below handstand. As long as it's above horizontal, you won't lose points for amplitude. I did not deduct for cast height in this routine. I didn't deduct for her clear hip height either, but on replay I can see where she could've lost half a tenth. I deducted .05 for her body position on the cast.

 

[3rd_time_around]

I understand about the arch and all; but is it going to score higher if it goes close to vertical? So is there a deduction for if it isn't significantly above? Or is there a bonus if they hit at or near vertical? I thought that as long as it was above horizontal that it didn't get deducted (I do understand how the archiness of the the first one could make the judge unsure of if it was above horizontal, and obviously there were deductions for her feet coming apart, so there are deductions for that).

I figured that it was sort of like Xcel... if a kid competes a beautiful RO/BHS/BT it doesn't score any better than this other kids RO/BHS in Gold. There is no bonus for the tougher skill as long as both meet the requirement. (I though that going *just* above horizontal wouldn't get scored lower than going to vertical since "above horizontal" is all that is required.) I understand that generally a girl who can go to vertical on her cast is going to generally have an all around cleaner level 5 routine since she likely is more advanced on bars than someone going just above horizontal, so I get that they will score higher; but it seems that the cast height shouldn't be what is making a difference...

There are no bonus points for getting closer to vertical in level 5. No extra points for going above and beyond the minimum. But body position is crucial in compulsories to keep from losing those tenths. Casts are judged from the shoulders through the lowest body part. So if top half of body is gorgeously hollow and above horizontal but her hips are piked and feet lower, she loses points. Don't get bogged down thinking there might be extra points for doing things higher, etc. there's not. And her swings need work, as others have mentioned.

 

[3rd_time_around]

" Don't get bogged down thinking there might be extra points for doing things higher, etc. there's not. And her swings need work, as others have mentioned."

Sorry, this sentence was for the OP, I forgot who I was replying to.

 

[munchkin3]

beautiful routine! she will be above 9 very soon!!!
PS, think about how soon compulsories will be OVER!!!!!! YESSSSSSSS!!!!

 

[gymdog]

Bent legs on her kips, all three, so .3 total (tenth each one)
Arch cast .1 or a half tenth
Bent arms on kips all three .3 total (tenth each one)
Hit her feet on the floor .3
Feet apart on squat on .1
feet apart on high bar cast (toes to pointing on the way down). half tenth for each, so .1 total.
leg separation no the baby giant .1
counter swings were low .2 (being nice)
Fly away was low .1
multiple steps on the dismount. .2
Also depends on the judge as far as the degree of casts and free hips, but I left those alone.
So depending on the judge anywhere from an 8.1 to 8.5. Don't hit your feet and add .3

I agree, I think cast height is the least of the problem here, not that I think it's a terrible routine, just that it needs some polishing. Swings to me accounted for a much higher proportion. That said I would still expect this to get about an 8.4.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Bent legs on her kips, all three, so .3 total (tenth each one)
Arch cast .1 or a half tenth
Bent arms on kips all three .3 total (tenth each one)
Hit her feet on the floor .3
Feet apart on squat on .1
feet apart on high bar cast (toes to pointing on the way down). half tenth for each, so .1 total.
leg separation no the baby giant .1
counter swings were low .2 (being nice)
Fly away was low .1
multiple steps on the dismount. .2
Also depends on the judge as far as the degree of casts and free hips, but I left those alone.
So depending on the judge anywhere from an 8.1 to 8.5. Don't hit your feet and add .3

Wow - I missed all that! (of course, I'm a mom, not a coach or judge).
I was comparing that to my own DD's only L5 bars, which was almost painful to watch, with an 8.775, and I had OP's bars somewhere around 9.4! LOL!
So I watched DD's again, and realized that although she had a forced baby giant, a pause before squat on, and a small step on flyaway, everything else was good and straight and tight and high.
This really was a good thread to show just how even a pretty looking routine can have a ton of tenths.
Thank you for that!

 

[fuzi]

0.1 Kip (bent knees)
0.2 Cast (leg separation, arched)
0.1 Clear hip (low)
0.1/0.3 Glide (brush or hit of the floor?
0.1 Tuck-on (leg sep)
0.1 High bar kip (slight knee and elbow bend)
0.1 High bar cast (shape)
0.05 Long hang pullover (slight elbow bend)
0.25 Tap swing (low, slight leg sep)
0.25 Tap swing (low, loose)
0.3 Flyaway (low, insufficient tuck)
0.2 Two steps on landing?
8.25 if she didn’t touch the floor, 8.15 if she brushed the floor, 7.95 if she hit the floor

There are a lot of skills in level 5 bars, so there are lots of chances for deductions. It will improve. Also not unusual for gymnasts to win level 5 bars with a high 8, low 9.

 

[AgingHippie]

Yes, this. At the first meet of our season last year DD took 1st on bars with a 7.95. Even by the last meet she was only up to a 9.15. She placed every single time and counted for team score every single meet. It was totally crazy!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Yes, this. At the first meet of our season last year DD took 1st on bars with a 7.95. Even by the last meet she was only up to a 9.15. She placed every single time and counted for team score every single meet. It was totally crazy!

Ah so there is hope for my kid.

 

[vans2]

Thanks everyone! This post seems to have strike up really good conversation and a lot of info and learning for all us non-coaches and parents. I hope it helps other out there!

The comparison video was also helpful GAgymom, as well as the easy-to-read (and comprehend lol) list of deductions from fuzi and coachp. SUPER HELPFUL!

She did come in 7th place with this routine. Everything past the baby giant is certainly where she's getting killed with her score. I kind of knew that, but I wanted to know just how much it was killing the score. And she can already do the cast to handstands but holds back because we were told it is not required. We didn't know the judges would like to see that so I'll tell her to go for it!

 

[vans2]

beautiful routine! she will be above 9 very soon!!!
PS, think about how soon compulsories will be OVER!!!!!! YESSSSSSSS!!!!

Can't wait to be outta of it! lol!