Women USAG JO Level 5 Vault Deduction for full spot over vault

[GymGirl's Mom]

Just curious- is there a standard deduction, as in 2.0 or something like that, for a full spot over the vault table? I am talking about gymnast runs, hurdles, straight jumps and the coach assists with the handspring portion of the vault. Not so worried about scores, really, just curious if there's a standard deduction for the spot on the handspring. Anyone know? DD is fully prepared for some super low vault scores until she can get over the vault on her own. I realize the standard deduction would be in addition to any other inadequacies the judges see in her vault- run, hurdle, form, etc. Just curious.

 

[wallinbl]

My understanding of it:

.5 for coach aid during landing
2.0 for coach aid during second flight (vault table to landing)
void for coach aid during first flight (spring board to vault table)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

last i looked, 5 tenths.

 

[gymdog]

5 tenths is just for landing spot. If you assist in the actual performance of a compulsory skill, generally they lose the value of the element. You're not allowed to even stand in between the springboard and the table in level 5, so I assume it might void the vault although I can never keep straight all the different things you can/can't do in 4, 5, and 6. It's definitely gotta be a full 2 points or whatever the harshest amount of preflight deduction is, but I think void might be right. Now if you stand behind the table, wait for them to jump to a handstand themselves, then just carry them over the back of the table, it's going to be pretty much the harshest deduction on everything because they'd have no block, would be leaving past handstand, plus no credit for post flight due to spot. But maybe they'd get a 3 or 4 or something.

So the bottom line is I can't imagine having a child compete on this event who can't make it over the table by themselves.

 

[MaryA]

I know my DD's coach gave her a bit of a boost on vault at her first level 5 meet and she got a 4-something. Ouch! But she ended up placing on vault at States, so it's all good. If you had told me at that first meet that she'd be placing on vault by the end of the season, I never would have believed you. Guess I need to remember that when I start to freak out about giants and BHS on beam now, huh?

 

[MyHappyLife]

Aid of coach during first flight, support or second flight - 2.00
Aid of coach upon landing - .5
No deduction for coach standing between board and vault table

JO compulsory penalties section revision from USAG:
Link Removed

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

I think DD and the coaching staff are willing to take the 3 or 4 or whatever the score may be instead of scratching it b/c it's a fear issue and just scratching it altogether isn't helping her (in particular) with the mental part she is struggling with. I think it's a case by case issue with kids and coaching in gymnastics. She is strong on the other events, just never seems to start her seasons out confident on vault and given a choice would prefer to give it a try rather than scratch it entirely. Even 2 voids at her 1st meet for being helped over, for her in particular, would be better than not performing it at all. This is a kid who has historically started each compulsary season out with a "rough" (for lack of a better word) on vault and as the season progressed she has progressed to high 8s and even a 9. Thanks for the help.

 

[MaryA]

Well, at least with vault, after she gets it, she won't have to compete a new one till level 8 (and even then she still CAN compete a FHS)! Now DD is starting to uptrain flipping vaults. Who knows how long it will take her to get there?!

 

[bogwoppit]

Gosh in the rest of the world the vault would be void, and the score would be zero, if the coach even touched the gymnast. The mind boggles.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Gosh in the rest of the world the vault would be void, and the score would be zero, if the coach even touched the gymnast. The mind boggles.

In the rest of the JO system (level 6 and up) the vault is a void if the coach assists in the performance of the vault. This 2.0 deduction for coach assistance during the vault only applies at level 5. The 0.5 deduction for spot uopn landing applies to all levels(essentially the same deduction as a fall).

 

[MaryA]

I'm not sure if there's any more glory in a 4-something than in a zero...

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

Gosh in the rest of the world the vault would be void, and the score would be zero, if the coach even touched the gymnast. The mind boggles.

Thanks for your opinion- you are the wind beneath my daughter's wings. The question was about USAG not about the "rest of the world" . I don't really care how it goes in Canada, apparently it is superior there. Seems that USA gymnastics has a pretty good program going for it, judging by the medals at the most recent Olympics. I don't appreciate your snarky comment.

 

[flipflopcrystal]

yikes^

Personally (I understand what the rule is) i agree if they need to be spotted then it should be a zero in both level 5 and 6. If they can't do it by themselves, they shouldn't be trying it...

Thats like going out in the middle of the floor on a routine and spotting them on a roundoff backhandspring. I'm sure its slightly embarassing for the kid and its also not an accurate assesment of their routine which also contains many other elements.

In my years coaching I have never seen a girl spotted on a fronthandspring at a meet. They either do it or scratch the event.

If it's mental, that should be worked on in practice, IMO.

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

^^^Again, the question was about what it is, not opinions what you think it should be, or how it is in the rest of the world, or what you have never personally seen at a meet or believe it should be or my daughter should do. Please stay on topic and if you have strong feelings feel free to start your own thread. The topic of this thread is the USAG JO Level 5 Vault deduction--- current vault deduction-- not your opinion on if it should be different. Thanks!

 

[bogwoppit]

Thanks for your opinion- you are the wind beneath my daughter's wings. The question was about USAG not about the "rest of the world" . I don't really care how it goes in Canada, apparently it is superior there. Seems that USA gymnastics has a pretty good program going for it, judging by the medals at the most recent Olympics. I don't appreciate your snarky comment.

No snark intended, sorry you read it that way.

Considering there are lots of folk here from the rest of the world you might want to reign in your attitude. You will find people more responsive of you do not slap people down when you do not like their answer. We are all here to learn and share, too bad you do not want to learn about the rest of the world, but others might.

 

[SignHere]

I see the mental thing, but is it a mental performance thing and she vaults fine in practice?

I know you say she's fine with a 3 or 4 but in actuality, I'd be worried about it affecting her self confidence!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

^^^Again, the question was about what it is, not opinions what you think it should be, or how it is in the rest of the world, or what you have never personally seen at a meet or believe it should be or my daughter should do. Please stay on topic and if you have strong feelings feel free to start your own thread. The topic of this thread is the USAG JO Level 5 Vault deduction--- current vault deduction-- not your opinion on if it should be different. Thanks!

Wait, wait, I'm sorry, are you actually, genuinely, getting offended because, AFTER YOUR QUESTION HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED, discussion of the subject continues? Are you actually getting offended by people discussing the nuances of the code and offering their opinions related to the subject?

This is a discussion forum. On it, people discuss things. Much like in real life, discussions rarely begin and end with a single question and answer. Much like in real life, responses are not strictly limited to answering the question which has been asked (particularly after that question has already been answered). Much like in real life, discussion tends to address related topics, and people are generally free to offer their opinions.

That's why we call it "discussion" instead of "Link Removed."

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks for your opinion- you are the wind beneath my daughter's wings. The question was about USAG not about the "rest of the world" . I don't really care how it goes in Canada, apparently it is superior there. Seems that USA gymnastics has a pretty good program going for it, judging by the medals at the most recent Olympics. I don't appreciate your snarky comment.

wow. pretty presumptuous on your part. you apparently don't know Bog. she was joking. it's not about any 1 country. the rest of the world goes by FIG as do the elites in the USA. only the USA has a JO program. so your comment about "medals" and USA gymnastics is inaccurate and off the mark. again, she was being humorous. geesh...[dunno sighs...]