Technical video question for coaches/judges/techies (Level 3 Vault)

[cbone]

My daughter is a very good vault competitor, but she seems to be stuck in the 9.45 and 9.50 range on her scores. I took some video from various angles this weekend of her vaulting to analyze. These nine vaults are very representative of her normal vaults and I slowed them down to 1/8 speed. The truth is, I don't have the technical knowledge to break them down well. Obvious things like when she dives slightly sideways or when she hits too low on the board, I can pick out. It's the other things like nuances of body positioning that I'm missing.

So my question is this for you coaches, judges, and techies- Where is she losing points? I am not looking to go around her coaches (who I have IMMENSE respect for), but rather to educate myself on what to look for. I also set it to music from a great band that had their music on Grey's Anatomy as a little incentive to watch.

Thanks in advance!!!

[video=youtube;XKO9qEkJE8w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKO9qEkJE8w&context=C4566095ADvjVQa1PpcFOo ix34gXHV1GKsdqFnZHfeMBAJD-CtdFM=[/video]

 

[GymnastJoy]

Yikes.............

sorry Dunno, couldn't help myself

 

[Mom2twingymnasts]

9.45 - 9.50 is a nice range to be stuck at. Tell she is a rockstar!!

 

[Natasha]

I am not a coach, and really could not tell you what to look for, however, vaults before level 5 are all about learning correct progressions to be successful in vaulting over the table. If she is scoring mid 9's, I would say she has mastered the progression at level 3 and is ready to move to the next progression at L4.

 

[ejgymmom]

I'm no coach, but her vaults are awesome. I would have loved if my Level 3 daughter did vaults like that. Mine hasn't quite figured out how to punch the springboard hard enough to fly off of it the way your daughter does. Those scores are excellent. I really wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[bogwoppit]

I seriously would not put that much effort into trying to evaluate a child's vaults. Her scores are massive and I think we can safely assume she will be to to L4, and a new vault, next year.

I know at the start it is hard to not focus on every detail, but I promise it will save your sanity in the long Term.

Oh and on a moderating note. The OP asked the question of coaches and judges. ; )

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yikes.............

Sorry dunno, couldn't help myself

lol. ...................

 

[gymdog]

It's an excellent vault for a child of this age. Unless you live in a super competitive area (like parts of TX or CA) I would therefore expect that she is placing in the top 3 in her age and level (level 3?) for this vault. If so then the judges already recognize it as an excellent example of the vault. However to give more background information, at this level the run is judged and most kids get deductions for "not maintaining horizontal speed" and "lack of acceleration" even when they have good vaults. I can't really tell this from the video but I'm sure it's the major thing her team is working on at this level so it will surely improve.

 

[cbone]

First of all, thank you all for the kind words. I'm obviously very proud and vault is certainly her best routine. gymdog, thanks for the reply. For many of us new gym parents, there aren't very many great resources to understand scoring and deductions. I really want to be able to give helpful encouragement and feedback like yours is really on target to assist with that.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

just tell her it's a great vault. plain and simple. and you're not lying. period. you'll never understand "scoring and deductions". no one in our profession does. this includes the judges. we compete in an imperfect and dysfunctional system all over the world. leave it at that.

 

[Kiwi]

you'll never understand "scoring and deductions". No one in our profession does. This includes the judges. We compete in an imperfect and dysfunctional system all over the world.

lol!!!!!! :d

 

[CoachTodd]

The level 3 vault is, to me, the most worthless vault ever put into women's gymnastics. I wouldn't really worry about the scores for the dive roll vault. What I saw of the video she's over rotating but like I said, it isn't a vault I'd worry about doing well.

 

[iwannacoach]

The level 3 vault is, to me, the most worthless vault ever put into women's gymnastics. I wouldn't really worry about the scores for the dive roll vault. What I saw of the video she's over rotating but like I said, it isn't a vault I'd worry about doing well.

You should have been around when we had to coach squat-thru vaults. That was an ugly time for gymnastics and an even uglier vault

 

[Deleted member D3987]

omg...you just gave away your age. lol! and i coached squats, straddles and flanks and hechts if you were REALLY good. how about that?

 

[gymdog]

You should have been around when we had to coach squat-thru vaults. That was an ugly time for gymnastics and an even uglier vault

Wasn't too long ago...there was a squat through vault in USAG level 4 basically up until we got the table in JO...must have been like what, 2002? You could do a squat through or a front handspring in level 4. I was a late starter and competed in the cycle of compulsories after most girls I did optional gymnastics with - basically the early part of the cycle we had before the current one. I only did one level 4 meet, but I can still remember learning the squat through.

As far as dive rolls, I don't know, people are always down on them but my feeling is when I was a kid I did mainly rec gymnastics for awhile and we did all sorts of stuff that is like, frowned upon today (headsprings, etc) and I was still able to do proficient handsprings once I learned them. I feel like they learn a dive roll eventually and they need to be able to differentiate between that and a front handspring. Some people might say it is too early and a dive roll shouldn't be introduced until they have a front handspring vault. That's a valid argument, although I can't say in my experience I feel it matters that much. Usually the issue with closed shoulder/rolling action is lack of block preparation and body tension (not to mention speed and board strike), not that they think they're doing a dive roll and I also think dive roll over something for distance is a good way to introduce stretching and not being afraid of vault. I first learned to do a dive roll over the vault, and later the table. Then we learned bounder over the table to stacked mats (hands on mats not on table). After that we learned a front layout over (turns over faster and not on the other side of the table, but I still think all the years of learning to go over the table without touching it was great preparation as we never hesitated or had problems or injuries really).

This was all done in conjunction with many blocking drills. It produces good results. Needs to be done safely which could be an issue in some gyms. Was never a safety issue at my gym. But that was the style of coaching, very aggressive and kinda if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. And heaven help you if you decided to get "confused" between a dive roll and a handspring - sorry, not happening. We used to do a block drill where you blocked off the table onto a block higher than the table, and then to your feet. Well one time when we moved onto front handsprings someone double blocked on the table and it was made very clear that you think before you go and you know what you're doing, and if you get "confused" then you will not be doing any more that day. I feel that was appropriate to the level and age at the time, front handsprings were not new to us then. In some places the coaching philosophy is a little more precious, which is what I deal with now and it's not really my thing, but that's a story for another day.

Basically, I think anything could be used or misused, so to speak. It really depends on the overall strategy and picture. If the coach is a technical vault coach and teaches a good approach, conditioning for speed, body tension, the vault is going to come, dive roll or not.

 

[iwannacoach]

Shoot Dog!! You sure took a lot of words to say the "dive roll" out classes the squat thru any day. I did however enjoy every word of it.

 

[ajcrr0585]

One thing you need to remember about level 3 vault is the fact that the child is not just juged on the diveroll. Two things about this vault. First i cant see everything because of the angle and the speed. 1st, the child is judged on the run. The run needs to start out and get faster and faster. There can be no stutter steps and the end and there has to be constant increase in speed. Next there has to be a big arm circle when hitting the board. The childs feet also need to be infront of her when she hits the board. These are skills that will help a child when the move to level 4 and start the handstand flatback and when they move to level 5 and start going over the full vault.

Hope this helps, Her vault looks very nice and remember, we cant always control what the judges see.

 

[iwannacoach]

omg...you just gave away your age. lol! and i coached squats, straddles and flanks and hechts if you were REALLY good. how about that?

Well, I was that good, and possibly???.......better than you.....but only in my dreams where I'm coaching my 4-6 year old Hotshot/Devo/J.E.T./C.oM.E.T group....Whoops gotta go...we just had another mop related incident at balance beam. Jeez, I really can't wait until 2024 rolls around.....I just wish they could just wait until......

 

[cbone]

One thing you need to remember about level 3 vault is the fact that the child is not just juged on the diveroll. Two things about this vault. First i cant see everything because of the angle and the speed. 1st, the child is judged on the run. The run needs to start out and get faster and faster. There can be no stutter steps and the end and there has to be constant increase in speed. Next there has to be a big arm circle when hitting the board. The childs feet also need to be infront of her when she hits the board. These are skills that will help a child when the move to level 4 and start the handstand flatback and when they move to level 5 and start going over the full vault.

Hope this helps, Her vault looks very nice and remember, we cant always control what the judges see.

That's really good advice. I got similar advice from someone else. Because of it, we had her run slower to start and accelerate instead of starting at a sprint and staying there. She scored 9.775 at her state meet, so I think the advice helped.

 

[GymBee97]

Don't get hung up on the scores, but that range is one anyone would be very happy to be "stuck" at.

Scores will change as quick as you change underware and every judge will score differently. So just worry if your DD is having fun while doing this.