WAG Bar deductions

[justkeepswimming]

For level 5 bars, is it better to connect the routine, and miss the casts to higher than horizontal or pause and cast high enough - regarding deductions? Also, is there a certain amount of time you have to squat on and jump to the high bar without it being counted as a pause?

 

[Bess]

May I throw in a deduction question?

It's seems to have become 2nd nature to little bit if she happens to fall back on her squat on (doesn't happen often) she will do a stoop circle and then jump to high bar. Would she be "dinged" twice for the fall and adding a skill?

 

[justkeepswimming]

I don't know much about the routines, except what I have seen in writing....however, is a stoop circle the same as a sole circle, and isn't that an optional method to transition to the high bar? I read sole circle, pike or squat on can be used for level 5 bars, and back walkover or back handspring step out for beam. However, this is straight up google, and I have zero idea what I am actually talking about

 

[Nikki4]

In my experience with dd lv 5 it was better if she connected everything.

And no deductions for the toe circle after the squat on, before the jump to high bar.

 

[justkeepswimming]

In my experience with dd lv 5 it was better if she connected everything.

And no deductions for the toe circle after the squat on, before the jump to high bar.

So kip, cast to less than horizontal with a slightly arched body to clear hip so it is connected, versus kip - pause- correct cast to above horizontal and hollow/straight body to clear hip?

Maybe she will get cleaner skills that are connected before she competes, and it won't matter She asked me and I have no idea!

 

[Bess]

Ty for the stoop/sole circle info. Shows you how much I know

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Connect , but it's early in the summer so hopefully she will rid herself of the arch by competition. Stoop and sole same thing . (We actually call then stupid circles , it's a long story. But I get parents asking me what a stupid circle is each year). .

 

[GymLife]

We were told, it was better to stop and hit that cast, because you get the deduction for not completing the skill which is a bigger deduction.
DD's 1 and only meet for 5 she got a 9.1 on bars. She did not connect her kip to her long hang pull over. Her routine was clean and her casts were high. Her team mate got and 8.4, good routine but missed both her casts. Both routines looked clean. Her team mate does arch as well.

 

[QueenBee]

I think everyone should go into Level 5 expecting deductions on bar routines that aren't pristine. Bar scores at Level 5 are notoriously strict...in either of your examples - a gymnast would be getting deducted. I agree with @coachp that having the connection would be better than not having it.

 

[justkeepswimming]

Connect , but it's early in the summer so hopefully she will rid herself of the arch by competition. Stoop and sole same thing . (We actually call then stupid circles , it's a long story. But I get parents asking me what a stupid circle is each year). .

Thanks! It's not terrible...she just can't cast nearly as pretty or high connected.

How is the squat on treated - regarding connection in routine? She trends to squat, pause, stand up pause, then jump. It is all controlled, but she has a long way to jump and is careful not to miss. Does it need to be quick transition?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Anytime you have a disruption of rythem it's subjective.

 

[Nikki4]

So kip, cast to less than horizontal with a slightly arched body to clear hip so it is connected, versus kip - pause- correct cast to above horizontal and hollow/straight body to clear hip?

Maybe she will get cleaner skills that are connected before she competes, and it won't matter She asked me and I have no idea!

Yep but honestly I would rather her have good form on everything and learn to connect it later vs connected, and learn form later, better scores or no.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Yep but honestly I would rather her have good form on everything and learn to connect it later vs connected, and learn form later, better scores or no.

I agree with this also , but that should of happened in level 4.

 

[ayyyrial]

Part of the point of connecting the kip and cast is to make sure they are learning to finish the kip with their feet in front of them - which is necessary if they're going to learn a kip cast handstand. If they can't cast as high when connecting the kip, it probably means they are losing the pike position at the end of the kip or not leaning far enough over the bar. So from a skill development perspective I'd rather see a connected kip-cast working on finishing the kip in a good position to cast high.

 

[3rd_time_around]

May I throw in a deduction question?

It's seems to have become 2nd nature to little bit if she happens to fall back on her squat on (doesn't happen often) she will do a stoop circle and then jump to high bar. Would she be "dinged" twice for the fall and adding a skill?

If she goes around in a sole circle, she will not get counted for a fall and 1 sole circle is allowed. So no deductions unless her form is bad.

 

[3rd_time_around]

For level 5 bars, is it better to connect the routine, and miss the casts to higher than horizontal or pause and cast high enough - regarding deductions? Also, is there a certain amount of time you have to squat on and jump to the high bar without it being counted as a pause?

If a gymnast pauses before the cast, it is counted as an extra swing, a flat .3 deduction. Plus any form and execution deductions on the cast that follows. They can get deducted for up to 3 extra swings; so kip, pause, cast, free hip, kip, pause, cast, squat on would be a flat .6 deduction for the 2 extra swings. It's not subjective, its a flat deduction. Now, pausing after the squat on for too long would be a subjective rhythm deduction, and slowing down in the "baby giant" is a subjective rhythm deduction, but pauses before casts are considered extra swings. It is better to do the lower cast and get maybe .1 deducted than it would be to pause before the cast.

 

[justkeepswimming]

If a gymnast pauses before the cast, it is counted as an extra swing, a flat .3 deduction. Plus any form and execution deductions on the cast that follows. They can get deducted for up to 3 extra swings; so kip, pause, cast, free hip, kip, pause, cast, squat on would be a flat .6 deduction for the 2 extra swings. It's not subjective, its a flat deduction. Now, pausing after the squat on for too long would be a subjective rhythm deduction, and slowing down in the "baby giant" is a subjective rhythm deduction, but pauses before casts are considered extra swings. It is better to do the lower cast and get maybe .1 deducted than it would be to pause before the cast.

Thanks - really good info to have!

 

[2G1B]

Not for L5; but at L6, my DD's by FAR worst bars score last season was one where she paused after kips, then casted. Her casts were much higher; but I guess the pauses were considered worse than connecting with a lower cast because that bars score was a full point+ lower than the rest of her bars scores for the season and other than the pauses it looked like a pretty good routine.

 

[coachmolly]

Learning to connect skills on bars can be a long and messy process, but she will get there. It's still summer, so hopefully by the time competition season rolls around she is connecting better quality casts. Extra swings/pauses can kill a bar score, but so can bad casts. She had to connect the routine in level 4, so is the problem primarily going for the bigger cast? Then lots and lots and lots of reps of kip-casts will eventually help her figure that out.

 

[Gymmommy71]

My opinion is the stops/pauses in a bar routine are scored much harsher than low casts, but I can't quantify it. We have had many girls who can cast to handstand from a stop, but not out of a kip, and the coaches never advise them to stop, even when they are barely hitting horizontal when above horizontal is a requirement.

If you mean that time after a squat on where the gymnast is essentially standing there on the low bar waiting to jump to the high bar, I'm not sure. I've seen some pauses at meets, but nothing more than like 3 seconds. I'm sure if a kid tried to stand there for like 30 seconds there would be some type of issue - maybe there's a time limit on the overall bar routine?