WAG Big mess before state meet this weekend:(

[bogwoppit]

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. You are setting your child up to be a victim. Would you allow any other person to treat your child this way? WOuld you pay for someone to treat your child that poorly?

It really bothers me when kids are kept with abusive coaches because they love the sport, or because the coach says sorry.

For every one abusive word, and ugly look, it will take hundreds of word of praise, and high fives, to heal. But not at the hands of a bully.

Speaking as an abused child, this is not okay.

 

[bookworm]

I've read through this whole thread and am frankly stunned( but sadly not surprised) by the whole chain of events. Kudos to your daughter for doing as well as she did under the circumstances but make no mistake here, whether HC "apologized profusely multiple times" or not, you need to get her out of there for a few reasons:

1. HC basically aided and abetted HC#2 who railed at your kid the week of states and sabotaged her by NOT SPEAKING UP HIMSELF AND SAYING IT WAS WRONG! Anyone can say I'm sorry after the fact, but the damage is done and why would you want to trust HC to do right by your daughter down the road, when his(or her) true colors and strength of character have already shown itself? To me, if HC really was the Head Coach, then he should have put a stop to the behavior immediately because he's the HC.

2. HC #2 knows that he/she has your number and will continue with this behavior because he/ she got away with it...you can speak to the person but the fact that this HC set up could exclude the person FROM THE MEET EVEN AS A SPECTATOR that your daughter felt comfortable with (HC #3), speaks volumes to the dynamics of what is going on there....HC #2 is calling all the shots, and if I'm you, that would terrify me after this past week...

3. "She loves HC and doesn't want to leave.."....well most victims love their abusers too and it usually takes a push from a clear head (and this would be you) to say we're done with this and it won't happen again because we're out of here. I saw that you said the next closest gym is 45 minutes away....for my daughter's long term mental health and safety, not far at all....

 

[bogwoppit]

Stockholm sydrome. Maybe for both parent and child.

 

[Amber]

Bog, if this was common behavior from coaches, I would run away. HC has favorites, and can be tactless to me, but the verbal abuse was a one time thing. So I don't feel like this will continue from her. In fact, she has told me she will do anything to repair the trust. I have not asked why coach #3 was not at meet...states still going on.

HC#2 bothers me. This coach feels like they did nothing wrong. If we leave, it will be because of this one.

I mean, people do make mistakes...it does happen. As long as it's not a pattern, and there is true remorse, I feel that forgiveness is warranted. Now, an adult who breaks down a kid and thinks it's par for the course, that is something you run from.

I am still planning a mtg with both coaches to figure this out.

 

[gracyomalley]

There are no perfect coaches, except on Chalk bucket!! However......

Kids this age are extremely vulnerable to the effects of their coaches attitudes. Your DD may have learned that her beloved HC can apologize (good) but the lesson she may have really absorbed, is that they really wanted her to win at all costs and only when she no longer showed the ability to "win" (fell apart under the pressure/abuse) did they apologize. And then she "lost"....HC now still "loves her" and will "never do it again".....

I don't know what is the right answer - it still bugs me that DD is struggling so much gymnastically, and a part of me wishes that she were still with her not healthy emotionally old coach - who she trained well for and who knew her well...Yesterday all the other optionals were at state so she practiced with the compulsory girls - new, foreign coach had her lead a team in strength/skill contests and of course her team won (having a level 7/8 ringer helps in free hip/cast handstand, etc contests when everyone else is level 5 and below). He did, to quote her "notice I can do harder stuff so scored me a 10 then gave me harder skills"....in truth there was NO pressure on her yesterday - and she had FUN doing gymnastics - even stayed to open gym with some non-gym friends and worked another 2 hours (showed off mostly).

The sad thing is this coach has been there for almost 2 months - and I'm pretty sure he has no idea that she competed 2 years of L7 medaling at state in multiple events and AA both times....her confidence is so shot she can only "perform" at her best when with a small group of compulsories...

Puberty and vestibular issues and moving gyms and losing equipment, as well as patchy training in certain skills as a younger gymnast all come into play for DD being so lost but the big issue is TRUST and self-confidence. She is still talking about how she doesn't know how to trust after her relationship with her beloved previous HC who "raised her from gym babyhood" and really cared about her - but not enough to be honest, behave like a responsible adult around her, and set her up for long term success....plus spent a year grooming her for the L7 Olympics rather than up training her for later skills - leading to some nice team awards/getting her gyms name up there but leaving DD confused - she still talks about how she no longer trusts what people say "because HC used to tell me I was so talented"....

I knew that my DD relationship with this coach was too close that last year. I knew that this HC had a history of making poor choices and that her behavior could be very erratic. I knew that she had a history of playing favorites, pegging kids and parents as good/bad and turning on people at the drop of a hat. Its a small town and we'd been there for years. But my DD loved her, and she was in many ways a very good coach - DD was well trained in many areas despite the deficits in others - and we had very few good options. I probably helped to set DD up by having her do privates, etc - I thought so she could continue up training - but they ended up being all polishing her routines to score a bit better..." I listened to the coach when I was told that DD would be happier if I stayed out of it all - a half truth - true about skills, etc, not true about the relationship!

I thought that as long as I as her mother was "counteracting" the negativity and lies that were coming from HC that DD would be ok....but I forgot to count on how many hours she had absorbed the HC stuff and how important friends and people outside family are for kids this age - especially if a kid has really formed a bond with the coach that mom can never have....don't downplay the influence this HC can have on your DD. As my kids always tell me if I mention anything I've learned on chalkbucket - "mom, you don't know anything about gymnastics, you can't even do a standing back/front tuck!" They will preferentially believe the coach over us most times....

It is the HCs responsibility to guide the team attitude and coaching attitudes. Right after state is a time when most kids are super excited about gym - ready to dive into the next level (at least training wise) and heading into the fun, pressure free time at gym - the fact that your DD feels the need for a "break" is telling you that this IS a big deal.....no choice about how to deal with this will be easy - staying there means you have to watch like a hawk, and your DD may now be treated differently. Finding a new gym means she has to learn to trust again - with new people and friends while trying to move up levels...a set of conditions that didn't go great for my DD...but a year later she's learned a very hard lesson about life but also about finding her own way in it....which is the lesson her new HC wants her to get out of all this - she very much hopes DD will compete L8 next year - but she's also handling her with kid gloves emotionally, which is unfortunate because coaching wise DD thrives with coaches that push her....in the end although DD may end up not as "successful" in JO gymnastics with this coach, she'll be a happier/stronger/healthier young woman....and she does now know that even if I can't do a back tuck, she can trust me!

Good luck for you and your DD - the grass isn't always greener so I don't know that moving gyms is the only answer - but don't give up your parenting rights to her coaches - they are there to teach her gymnastics and sports ethics, etc. you are there to protect her and encourage her. Kids change and so do coaches, and mistakes can be made, but its your job to find her balance - she is clearly talented or she wouldn't be doing this well this young - but gym and life are a long road....

 

[Seeker]

Go look at your daughters' hands and then remind yourself why and how this isn't abuse. HC had a chance to stop all of this and did nothing. Your daughter has the scars and rips to prove it.

Now, who knows if the gym 45 mins away is any better, but let's not kid ourselves here about the damage that can (and has) been inflicted.

 

[Amber]

I agree with the responses. I do. But DD does still want to do gymnastics. There just arent any good choices. Live in the car to go to gyms 45min+ away? Or tell her she's done with the sport?
I really wish it were simple. It's not. It's torturing me to be in this situation after many good years. But I don't want my DD personality or childhood tainted.
I have some time to think about it. And I am. Constantly. I do really appreciate and respect the opinions I read here. Especially from those who have been there. It's sad that the 5% bad ruins the 95% good.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I am sorry your daughter is going through this.

Makes me appreciate our coaches though. They are of the meet is a meet plain and simple. They are just meets, you do your best at every one of them, local, state, regional and I imagine national. They caution us parents not to make bigger deal about states or regionals. Meets all taken seriously and all just meets.

We took some privates this winter to fine tune. Coach actually apologized for being so picky. I told her with my girls blessing. No we get it, we came her for the details, for the nit picking. But my girl knew this going in. She didn't take it personal.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You know 45 mins in a car may not be so bad. Time for good chats, some audio books, music, conversation. Homework. You just never know.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. You are setting your child up to be a victim. Would you allow any other person to treat your child this way? WOuld you pay for someone to treat your child that poorly?

It really bothers me when kids are kept with abusive coaches because they love the sport, or because the coach says sorry.

For every one abusive word, and ugly look, it will take hundreds of word of praise, and high fives, to heal. But not at the hands of a bully.

Speaking as an abused child, this is not okay.

Speaking as an abused ex wife, this is never OK.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Bog, if this was common behavior from coaches, I would run away. HC has favorites, and can be tactless to me, but the verbal abuse was a one time thing. So I don't feel like this will continue from her. In fact, she has told me she will do anything to repair the trust. I have not asked why coach #3 was not at meet...states still going on.

HC#2 bothers me. This coach feels like they did nothing wrong. If we leave, it will be because of this one.

I mean, people do make mistakes...it does happen. As long as it's not a pattern, and there is true remorse, I feel that forgiveness is warranted. Now, an adult who breaks down a kid and thinks it's par for the course, that is something you run from.

I am still planning a mtg with both coaches to figure this out.

So how many bad days is a grown up allowed to make a child feel like crud?

Really think long and hard. At what point is it OK. 5 times? 10 times? Just once a month, or week? What negative talk is OK and what is not?

And what is your child learning? That it is OK to be treated like crud. To be made to feel bad about one self.

So one day when her husband treats her like crud, because she learned that was OK? Will you still be so forgiving and ready to excuse?

What you allow will continue. Is that what you want?

 

[Seeker]

There may be an option for a carpool too...and depending on practice times, it may not be so bad. We drive 45-60 mins and honestly we do enjoy that time in the car. We talk, dd reads or does homework, etc. It goes by faster than you think it will. Can't hurt to check out the options.

 

[Amber]

So how many bad days is a grown up allowed to make a child feel like crud?

Really think long and hard. At what point is it OK. 5 times? 10 times? Just once a month, or week? What negative talk is OK and what is not?

And what is your child learning? That it is OK to be treated like crud. To be made to feel bad about one self.

So one day when her husband treats her like crud, because she learned that was OK? Will you still be so forgiving and ready to excuse?

What you allow will continue. Is that what you want?

Definitely agree. What's hard in this situation, was that this was the first time this has happened. It's not a repetitive thing. You all would have heard about it. But that doesn't justify it. And I NEVER want to see it happen from any adult again.

DD has come out of this gym 10,000 times super happy with a big smile. Why, why, why did they destroy this?!

 

[MILgymFAM]

I gotta say, the driving time with my girls has become something we really enjoy (except the occasional gridlocked traffic- I will never enjoy that!). We have had lots of long talks about all kinds of things, important and silly. We have listened to whole series of books. We have sang at the top of our lungs to some pretty terrible songs. In a way, even though it's in the car, it's private time with just me and my girls. We drive approximately 7 hours a week back and forth to gym, and my girls truly appreciate that I am willing to do that for them. Just some food for thought.

 

[anothergymmom]

I'm with you on that MILgymFAM. We are not in the car quite as much as you, but I often feel that the really important stuff--emotional, social etc--can come out in conversations in the car. There are no chores to do, no other distractions. I really cherish the time--as strange as that may seem. I am lucky though that my job allows a lot of flexibility in hours. If you have that flexibility OP, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take the 45 min drive over the really damaging gym situation you have described.

 

[Pigeon]

Speaking as a former gymnast...

Echoing what others have said: Abusive coaches can do real damage. I was really never the same as a gymnast after leaving a gym with awful, hurtful coaches (and when other gymnasts see coaches being awful and hurtful, they may start to think that is an okay way to treat the teammate taking the brunt of the abuse). Personally, I was never able to get over it. But, my parents were never aware how bad it was (I trained at a school during daytime work hours, there was no way they could ever watch and I didn't talk about it). And the abusive coaches in my situation would never, ever have apologized. Ever. You are fully aware of what went on, and you have at least one coach acknowledging that mistakes were made. My parents did eventually pull me out of the club I was in with the abusive coaches, and the other coaches I had after that would never treat an athlete as those first coaches did.

About the drive to switch clubs - my family always had a long-ish drive (40 min) to where I trained and the one thing I have to say is while it was fine for me, that drive was hard on my mother (who did most of the driving) and it was really, really hard on my brothers. I have two boys in gymnastics now, and good boys clubs are limited where we are. I wouldn't put my family through the long drive to go to another club. I would do whatever it took to make things work where we are now. That long drive was hard on my family. There are only so many hours in a day...but it would really depend on your family situation.

Hoping for the best for you and your daughter. She's lucky she has a mom so in-tune with what's going on!

 

[duyetanh]

I would not care if my kid had been at the gym for years...we would be gone.
Might be a good little old wakeup call, and they will realize they can't treat kids like crap.
My two cents. For what it's worth. By the way we drive that far, and i could care less...some of my most special moments of truth, love, and laughter have been in that car of mine, she also listens to her Suzuki piano music. It's awesome.

 

[COz]

Our drive takes longer than that too and we escaped the abusive ballet teacher.

You need to get her out of there or it will happen again.
45 minutes really isn't that long, I hope you find a way to manage it.
We decided a long drive was worth in trade off for what we were getting from it.

Lots of kind thoughts headed your direction.

Oh, and take photos of her hands to remind yourself of what they did.

 

[COz]

Doesn't surprise me DD hugged HC. She asked DDs forgiveness multiple times. DD turned the other cheek and forgave her. She's a better person than me.

If it happened again and HC asked for forgiveness would it still be OK?
Would that make DD an even better person for forgiving her abuser a second time, then a third?

I hope it truly ws a 'mistake' and not a pattern from HC#1 but it doesn't sound like there is any chance that it was a 'mistake' by HC#2 :-(

 

[SignHere]

I've read through this whole thread and am frankly stunned( but sadly not surprised)


the next closest gym is 45 minutes away....for my daughter's long term mental health and safety, not far at all....

I am going to be really harsh here, and say something that you are not going to want to hear. I moved my DD from a gym that
was 5 min away to a gym that was 35-45 min away, depending on traffic, simply because of her anxiety over her gymnastics was so bad that I felt that a " fresh start " would be in her best interest. And here you have described what appears to be a basically abusive situation towards your daughter, but you're going to keep her there? I'm shocked. You need to examine your priorities.