WAG Mom getting upset at L3 workout schedule - with L2's!

[happychaos]

Right there are the two big problems OP has with the situation...
#1 - it is OUTSIDE of the norm to force a gymmie to DOWNTRAIN 1/2 of her practices every week. While it is normal to have mixed level groups, the NORM is to have the girls work on Level appropriate skills. This is not what is occurring. When she is with the L2s, she works L2 skills and runs L2 routines.... or watches the rest of her L3 teammates run their L3 routines in preparation for a meet that SHE was also going to be competing in as a L3.

#2 - 2 days a week, not only is she NOT working on learning NEW skills, she isn't even allowed to work on the skills in her CURRENT routines (unless they overlap with the lower level skills).

Wait...as I understand it, the gymmie is competing level 2....am I wrong? I thought she was just allowed to uptrain with the level 3's twice per week.

If she is competing level 3, and still being forced to practice level 2 routines, obviously that's a different story.

OP could you clarify what level your DD competed, and when. That makes a huge difference in the appropriateness of the situation

 

[Ali'sMom]

The fact is, however, that most gyms are private businesses, and can run the way they want. If you have options, then you shop around to find the one that best fits your child's needs. That is the key.

Now, having a conversation with the coach about their plan for your daughter would give you an idea of what to do. It sounds like she is doing really well with what is being done for her right now. But, I think chatting with the coach about how she would like to work her level 3 skills more so she can improve, and see waht the thought is behind it all isn't a bad idea.

I wholeheartedly agree with this!

A follow up to my above-post: fast forward to this past summer. DD was moved up to L4. I found out (after 4 weeks) that on Thursdays she was with the L3s. Only a couple of 4's moved over to the 3's on those days. DD never mentioned it. I thought maybe she wasn't going to stay L4 because her kip was inconsistent.
SO I ASKED.
On those days the L3 girls were a smaller group. DD was moved to work with them so she'd have more time on bars to work the kip. (the L3 girls were doing their own skills - when it was her turn, she worked her L4 kip).
I did have a quick moment like OP... I thought "WTH? what happened? I thought she was moved up to 4??? Are they letting her work with the 3s so she doesn't forget the routines when she gets moved back???"
Next morning I emailed, and got my answer, and was happy.

Now, had I been told she was moved because of her age (not because of skill). And knew that she wasn't working her kip, but only allowed to do Level 3 things, and couldn't get a better answer, then I'd be upset. I'd certainly feel like they were holding her back. And I'd probably schedule a face to face with the coach, and if I wasn't satisfied, I'd be gym-hunting.

 

[Ali'sMom]

Wait...as I understand it, the gymmie is competing level 2....am I wrong? I thought she was just allowed to uptrain with the level 3's twice per week.

If she is competing level 3, and still being forced to practice level 2 routines, obviously that's a different story.

OP could you clarify what level your DD competed, and when. That makes a huge difference in the appropriateness of the situation

She is competing L3 and doing well.
On those days that she works out with the L2s, she is not allowed to do L3 skills. The rest of her L3 teammates are working on L4 skills.
So it's double-sided. Her DD doesn't get to work on the uptraining, which alone could be alittle disheartening, but maybe she's not ready. But she's also forced to do L2 skills.

 

[IreneKa]

Wait...as I understand it, the gymmie is competing level 2....am I wrong? I thought she was just allowed to uptrain with the level 3's twice per week.

If she is competing level 3, and still being forced to practice level 2 routines, obviously that's a different story.

OP could you clarify what level your DD competed, and when. That makes a huge difference in the appropriateness of the situation

She competes Level 3, here is her earlier post:

Sorry I was not more clear -- no, she competed L2 last year and moved to L3 this year -- on the two days she is with her "team" -- they ALL work out with L4's -- so when she see's the rest of her "team" doing things like routines (L3) -- or backhandsprings (which is in her routine) and she is having to do forward rolls or something, then yea, it bothers her.

 

[Moxiegrl83]

When the L2's do floor, does she do the L2 routines?? Beam? Because that just makes no sense....

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

I agree that as it has been portrayed, I would not be happy if all these points are absolutely correct:
Competing L3
Practicing with L2 and NOT working the L3 skills at all during those practices
Being made to sit and watch while other L3's practice the L3 routines
Paying for L3 training

I would ask for an explanation as it makes no sense whatsoever. Different practice groups is totally fine, but there is simply no reason at all why this gymnast should not be allowed to practice the L3 routines/skills even while she is training with the lower group. It is NOT hard to do as a coach to have little Suzie work on BHS while the rest of the group is working on cartwheels (or whatever they do in L2, I admit that I have no clue). Or have her work her mill circle while the others are doing BHC during her rotation on bars. We cater to individual progress all the time, not all girls are going to be at the same exact spot of progression at the same exact time...

Now, going at it with guns blazing in the manner is does seem during this thread.... Probably not in the best interest of the gymnast. Apologies if the tone of the OPs posts have been read incorrectly, but I can only go from what has been portrayed in this thread. This wouldn't be the way I would approach the coaches about it.

Best of luck to you and your DD, I hope you can figure out what is going on and what their plan is for her.

 

[profmom]

Why on earth would anyone pay the amount of money we pay to gyms to train our kids if we don't trust the coaches? If I didn't understand a decision coaches made about training groups, I'd ask them, and if the answer led me to distrust their training plan for my child, I'd rethink my commitment to the gym. Would you pay a few hundred or several hundred dollars every month to a car mechanic, doctor, or any other professional if you didn't trust that person's professional expertise and judgment? The school analogy is false, because school is not a private free market for the most part, though I will observe that people who distrust the public schools will often pursue other options.

I reiterate: if you don't trust the coaches' plan for your child, you need to switch gyms. Sooner rather than later. This isn't going to work if you have an adversarial, distrustful relationship with the people who are training your child.

OP, have you talked to the people who made the decision, asked them the rationale, and asked them how long the split group is going to be the plan?

Not at all sure how anyone reads this and gets "blindly trust the coaches." I reiterate, now for the third or fourth time, 1) the necessity to communicate with the coaches and 2) the necessity to change gyms if you cannot accept the way things are done in yours.

 

[munchkin3]

I thought she competed L2 and moved up to train with L3, but has not yet competed L3?
Am I correct?

With other L3 on our compulsory team (currently competing it) She has an unfair advantage over the rest of her L3 team, simply because she is being exposed to higher skills during the optional training times.

I can totally see where the OP would be upset if her DD is stuck at a lower training level if she earned the right to move up with the rest of her L3 team.

 

[sportsmommy]

Actually I would be fine with it IF they were doing the L3 stuff on days with the L2's -- but they don't. Example - this week - with state this weekend, my DD was with the L2's WATCHING the other L3's practice ROUTINES.

I am not sure if I understand this. Your dd was going to be competing L3 routines at states and when she was with L2 she was watching the L3 practice routines?? If that's what was going on, it would be one os the silliest things i have heard.

 

[TxGymMom1]

She is competing L3 and doing well.
On those days that she works out with the L2s, she is not allowed to do L3 skills. The rest of her L3 teammates are working on L4 skills.
So it's double-sided. Her DD doesn't get to work on the uptraining, which alone could be alittle disheartening, but maybe she's not ready. But she's also forced to do L2 skills.

Thanks Ali'sMom -- she gets to uptrain only on days she is with her regular team (twice per week) -- but because the ratio would be off on the other days -- she is forced to do whatever the L2's are doing (twice per week).

 

[TxGymMom1]

I thought she competed L2 and moved up to train with L3, but has not yet competed L3?
Am I correct?

With other L3 on our compulsory team (currently competing it) She has an unfair advantage over the rest of her L3 team, simply because she is being exposed to higher skills during the optional training times.

I can totally see where the OP would be upset if her DD is stuck at a lower training level if she earned the right to move up with the rest of her L3 team.

Oh no - she IS a L3 and has competed L3 all season - and did well. So yes, she earned the right to move up, but only gets to work out with her team twice per week "because of the ratio" -- and her age -- the coach said he has the two youngest L3's work out with the L2's simply because they are basically the same age -- just not skill level. Which would be fine if he still had them working on L3 things -- but that is VERY rare.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I agree that as it has been portrayed, I would not be happy if all these points are absolutely correct:
Competing L3
Practicing with L2 and NOT working the L3 skills at all during those practices
Being made to sit and watch while other L3's practice the L3 routines
Paying for L3 training

I would ask for an explanation as it makes no sense whatsoever. Different practice groups is totally fine, but there is simply no reason at all why this gymnast should not be allowed to practice the L3 routines/skills even while she is training with the lower group. It is NOT hard to do as a coach to have little Suzie work on BHS while the rest of the group is working on cartwheels (or whatever they do in L2, I admit that I have no clue). Or have her work her mill circle while the others are doing BHC during her rotation on bars. We cater to individual progress all the time, not all girls are going to be at the same exact spot of progression at the same exact time...

Now, going at it with guns blazing in the manner is does seem during this thread.... Probably not in the best interest of the gymnast. Apologies if the tone of the OPs posts have been read incorrectly, but I can only go from what has been portrayed in this thread. This wouldn't be the way I would approach the coaches about it.

Best of luck to you and your DD, I hope you can figure out what is going on and what their plan is for her.

Your points are correct. Thanks for your insight. And my guns certainly are not blazing, lol, just looking for others opinions.

 

[TxGymMom1]

When the L2's do floor, does she do the L2 routines?? Beam? Because that just makes no sense....

the L2's do not practice routines on the days they have the two L3's with them. The entire group instead focuses on skills -- even with the L3's state comp approaching. The skills are geared toward the L2's. I should also ad -- I do not know if our coaches read this forum -- but since my post (so this week) one of her two coaches has been having the two L3's actually work on L3 things -- even when with the 2's. The other coach, unfortunantly still does not -- but that's still progress.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I wholeheartedly agree with this!

A follow up to my above-post: fast forward to this past summer. DD was moved up to L4. I found out (after 4 weeks) that on Thursdays she was with the L3s. Only a couple of 4's moved over to the 3's on those days. DD never mentioned it. I thought maybe she wasn't going to stay L4 because her kip was inconsistent.
SO I ASKED.
On those days the L3 girls were a smaller group. DD was moved to work with them so she'd have more time on bars to work the kip. (the L3 girls were doing their own skills - when it was her turn, she worked her L4 kip).
I did have a quick moment like OP... I thought "WTH? what happened? I thought she was moved up to 4??? Are they letting her work with the 3s so she doesn't forget the routines when she gets moved back???"
Next morning I emailed, and got my answer, and was happy.

Now, had I been told she was moved because of her age (not because of skill). And knew that she wasn't working her kip, but only allowed to do Level 3 things, and couldn't get a better answer, then I'd be upset. I'd certainly feel like they were holding her back. And I'd probably schedule a face to face with the coach, and if I wasn't satisfied, I'd be gym-hunting.

I agree with you -- I would actually feel better if they had said she needs to work on ......... But yes, the age thing irritated me. She is not a discipline problem at all, never has been. She's also very focused for her age -- and more so than a lot of the older girls.

 

[TxGymMom1]

Wait...as I understand it, the gymmie is competing level 2....am I wrong? I thought she was just allowed to uptrain with the level 3's twice per week.

If she is competing level 3, and still being forced to practice level 2 routines, obviously that's a different story.

OP could you clarify what level your DD competed, and when. That makes a huge difference in the appropriateness of the situation

raenndrops is absolutely correct -- She is competing L3 -- but has to work on L2 skills (not routines) when with L2's. And yes, her L3 teammates are practicing the L3 routines - and L3 skills all the while she is having to do L2 stuff -- simply because of the group/age she is with on that particular day. She does get to uptrain L4 things but only on the days she is with her actual team.

 

[happychaos]

raenndrops is absolutely correct -- She is competing L3 -- but has to work on L2 skills (not routines) when with L2's. And yes, her L3 teammates are practicing the L3 routines - and L3 skills all the while she is having to do L2 stuff -- simply because of the group/age she is with on that particular day. She does get to uptrain L4 things but only on the days she is with her actual team.

Ahhh...I am sorry, I was misunderstanding what level she was competing. So, if your DD competed L2 last year, what happened to all of her teammates that she competed L2 with? Are her teammates from last year now the full-time L3's? I thought you said only two girls were moved up, so maybe the rest of the team is repeating L2?

If your DD is a successful L3, she should be uptraining L4 skills, especially on bars and vault. But, if the L3 group is full, it's full. My DD has been qualified and ready to move up to a higher training group, but it is full. She has been promised the slot as soon as someone moves out of the higher group. Could this be what is happening with your DD? I sometimes wonder if adding one more girl would really make that much of a difference...frustrating, but it is the way out gym does it.

 

[TxGymMom1]

Ahhh...I am sorry, I was misunderstanding what level she was competing. So, if your DD competed L2 last year, what happened to all of her teammates that she competed L2 with? Are her teammates from last year now the full-time L3's? I thought you said only two girls were moved up, so maybe the rest of the team is repeating L2?

If your DD is a successful L3, she should be uptraining L4 skills, especially on bars and vault. But, if the L3 group is full, it's full. My DD has been qualified and ready to move up to a higher training group, but it is full. She has been promised the slot as soon as someone moves out of the higher group. Could this be what is happening with your DD? I sometimes wonder if adding one more girl would really make that much of a difference...frustrating, but it is the way out gym does it.

These two girls were the only two moved up from the L2 team last season. The other girls are repeating the level (or have now quit) because they did not receive a required 36.0 on the L3 routines at JO this past summer. The L3 team isn't full -- it's only when they combine it with the L4's that it knocks the ratio out. On days when there are fewer L4's (two days per week), my DD and the other younger L3 are allowed to all work out together. IMO - we need another team coach (which gym owners readily admit) -- and they are simply saving money. I can see how that could be frustrating for you and your DD -- how long has she been waiting for a slot to open?? I often have the same thought ... why not make the gymnasts/parents .. everyone happy and let another girl or two work out with her team. I suppose there must be a method to the madness ... somewhere ... maybe

 

[NoDramaMama]

I can understand why you would be upset. I would too because she is not working her level 3 skills on the days that she is with the level 2's. That seems to be where the problem (for me) comes in to play. At our gym, we have several girls that train with Level 4, but compete level 3 because their level 4 skills weren't competition ready. So, when it comes to routines, they just do the level 3 routine while the level 4's do their routine. We also have a level 2 who trains with the level 3's, but competed level 2. They are still allowed, and required, to do the level appropriate skills regardless of what group they are training with. My own 7 yo Level 3 would NOT like it if she was competing level 3 and training level 2 skills AND having to watch her level 3 teammates practice routines while she is doing forward rolls.

It seems like an easy fix. Just let the 2 level 3's do level 3 skills and routines while they are with the level 2 team. It seems pretty common sense. I would imagine all gyms want their gymnasts to advance and up train and not down train. I don't see the value in her doing forward rolls and not back handsprings.

Our gym also does warm up, conditioning and basics with all levels (including optionals). When they line up, they do so according to level so each line does level appropriate skills.

Hopefully they have a plan for your dd for after states that makes more sense. This seems like poor planning on their part.

 

[TxGymMom1]

I can understand why you would be upset. I would too because she is not working her level 3 skills on the days that she is with the level 2's. That seems to be where the problem (for me) comes in to play. At our gym, we have several girls that train with Level 4, but compete level 3 because their level 4 skills weren't competition ready. So, when it comes to routines, they just do the level 3 routine while the level 4's do their routine. We also have a level 2 who trains with the level 3's, but competed level 2. They are still allowed, and required, to do the level appropriate skills regardless of what group they are training with. My own 7 yo Level 3 would NOT like it if she was competing level 3 and training level 2 skills AND having to watch her level 3 teammates practice routines while she is doing forward rolls.

It seems like an easy fix. Just let the 2 level 3's do level 3 skills and routines while they are with the level 2 team. It seems pretty common sense. I would imagine all gyms want their gymnasts to advance and up train and not down train. I don't see the value in her doing forward rolls and not back handsprings.

Our gym also does warm up, conditioning and basics with all levels (including optionals). When they line up, they do so according to level so each line does level appropriate skills.

Hopefully they have a plan for your dd for after states that makes more sense. This seems like poor planning on their part.

Thank you for validating that you, and your little gymnast would be bothered by this as well. I appreciate your well thought out responses.

 

[skschlag]

Can I ask what they do work on in the level 2 workout? Are they basics that carry over and up levels?

I only ask because my ds sometimes works out with 5s, 6s, 7s, and 9s. When he si with the 5s, he does a lot of things that are "level 5" (handstands, dive rolls, pirouettes, splits, etc). This could frustrated me and him, but we know that working these skills will only help his level 8 skills. If he was working something that he would never use again (whcih is rare in gymnastics, but I nkow the girls bars has a couple of skills that are level specific), then that would frustrate me. But since gymnastics builds on foundation skills, I see working the basics as a good thing.