WAG Level 8 Vault Changes

[Jenny]

We only have 2 vaults at the lower levels. Our higher levels and elite compulsory levels (from age 8) usually only have 1 vault. But our vaults have far more variety than yours. We have all sorts of 'prep' vaults included as vaults in order to create a vault between the handspring and somersault vaults. And each competition can be different. In the last year my kids did 5 competitions with 4 different vaults. They like the variety but it can be interesting changing vaults between each competition.

 

[cbifoja]

Will the score of the first vault be flashed before the coach decides about attempting a second?

 

[munchkin3]

I started out this crazy sport with Mens gymnastics........only one vault period.....from L4 onwards...
Sounds fine to me, less is more.

 

[Seeker]

Will the score of the first vault be flashed before the coach decides about attempting a second?

This is what I was wondering too -- will you see your score before you decide whether to do a 2nd vault?

 

[profmom]

My dd did level 8 last year. Pike Yurchenko...She's a pretty good vaulter. But I saw lots and lots of scary, scary vaults and kids crying at meets. I think this is a good thing.

I saw a level 9 session last year where the coach had very small girls doing piked Yurchenkos, almost crashing or crashing them, and then getting harsh scoldings from the coach. Just about the whole team was in tears by the end of the rotation. I don't know what the story was. I only know what I saw, and what I saw made me want to punch him in the face!

Anyway if they do go from two vaults to one, have no worries. From watching the boys' side, I am totally confident that the girls can turn our hair grey and take years off our lives during that first season of flipping even if they only have one chance per meet to do it.

Did I mention that I hate optional vault? About all I can say is that most of the time, most of the kids from my kids' programs aren't visibly tapping death on the shoulder and walking away.

 

[bookworm]

Will the score of the first vault be flashed before the coach decides about attempting a second?

I was just at a judging conference and they said the score of the first vault would not be flashed....and I believe there was mention that the coach couldn't even ask...

 

[profmom]

I was just at a judging conference and they said the score of the first vault would not be flashed....and I believe there was mention that the coach couldn't even ask...

That seems . . . downright wrong. How's a coach to make a thoughtful judgment?

 

[bookworm]

That seems . . . downright wrong. How's a coach to make a thoughtful judgment?

From what we were told, the reasoning was that there were coaches out there who weren't making " thoughtful judgements" when the kid did the first vault, landed it safely , usually a handspring and then the second would be a completely chucked, unsafe flipped vault landing in crashes.....I actually think you'll see the scarier vaults first and if they still crash, then the nice safe handspring vault to count.

 

[profmom]

Interesting. DD's vault coach has them do the harder vault first and then if it doesn't go well, he dials them back.

 

[vagymmomma]

That seems . . . downright wrong. How's a coach to make a thoughtful judgment?

This is why I think this hurts good vaulters. This is a sport where placement can be based on a tenth of a point or less, so it was always nice to have a second shot at the apple. They won't even try for the extra little bit now. It also bothers me that the 1.0 spot deduction basically equates a flipping vault to a handspring now in terms of start value. It seems like a heavy spot could be a big advantage in landing.

Our coaches wouldn't even think about letting a girl compete a flip if warmups looked bad. It's sad that a rule change is required for coaches to put safety first.

 

[cbifoja]

So maybe the better solution would be to have allowed timer type vaults or at least make the tucked version start with a 10sv rather than making the first time kids are competing flipping vaults to be such a big jump by requiring them to at least be piked. But that's just my opinion.

 

[profmom]

I don't think the problem is tuck vs. pike. It's only .2. The problem is flipping in general when the child is not ready to flip safely without a spot. But I agree -- raising the SV of a roundoff on handspring off to 9 would be great.

 

[lhmom]

Thanks for sharing this! My DD has been working towards competing level 8 so I will be curious to see how this plays out in the upcoming season. We did go watch some level 8 sessions last season and saw some pretty scary vaults, so I can understand why USAG made changes.

 

[gymdog]

Yeah I don't really know about this rule. I appreciate that they did something in general, but it seems like people are just going to throw that vault first and then go to the front handspring...so the unsafe vault is still thrown. I think going to a one vault format would have done more to discourage unsafe vaults. One vault and then when kids land on their hands/face the judges have to actually void it. When the zeros start rolling in, things would change. I mean I suppose throwing an unsafe vault once is better than twice, but...still.

 

[mommyof1]

But our vaults have far more variety than yours. We have all sorts of 'prep' vaults included as vaults in order to create a vault between the handspring and somersault vaults.

Does anyone know why the U.S. doesn't take this approach?

 

[gymdog]

Well, it's been debated ad nauseum, but the official conclusion is mostly along the lines of "we don't know how it would work."

 

[profmom]

Yeah I don't really know about this rule. I appreciate that they did something in general, but it seems like people are just going to throw that vault first and then go to the front handspring...so the unsafe vault is still thrown. I think going to a one vault format would have done more to discourage unsafe vaults. One vault and then when kids land on their hands/face the judges have to actually void it. When the zeros start rolling in, things would change. I mean I suppose throwing an unsafe vault once is better than twice, but...still.

But . . . boys. Faceplants. Though I guess better once than twice!

 

[Amber]

Yeah I don't really know about this rule. I appreciate that they did something in general, but it seems like people are just going to throw that vault first and then go to the front handspring...so the unsafe vault is still thrown. I think going to a one vault format would have done more to discourage unsafe vaults. One vault and then when kids land on their hands/face the judges have to actually void it. When the zeros start rolling in, things would change. I mean I suppose throwing an unsafe vault once is better than twice, but...still.

My dd is competing Level 8 this season, so this thread really interests me. My question is about "voided" vaults. I have seen many Level 8 meets, and have seen quite a few girls land on their hands and knees. They typically received scores 7-8.25, not 0. I have actually never seen a zero score yet. Ever. How does someone receive a zero? I thought there was a courtesy score of 1? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Thank goodness at our gym, the girls do timers and practice vaults leading up to Yurchenkos for 3/4 years before competing them. Mine is doing piked Yurchenko, and I'm not worried at all. May not be a perfect vault, but will be completely safe! I do agree seeing girls flip vaults who are not ready is scary !

 

[gymmomtoo]

A vault is voided if judges feel the gymnast landed with any part of the body other than her feet first. If it's close, they'll usually give them the benefit of the doubt and count it as a fall but not a void.

 

[Honey]

Ontario doesn't seem to be following suit...yet. The newly released Link Removed for levels 6-9 still say "one or two vaults, best to count" for all all four optional levels. Perhaps they will wait and see how it works out in the States before implementing for level 8.